Bob Brundage - This is Bob Brundage again, the date today in the United States is September twenty five and I'm today making a long distance call to Art Shepherd over in New Zealand. And we had a little mix up in our time (short laugh) and so it's midnight where he is and I'm sorry to interrupt him but, be that as it may. So Art, why don't you tell us what your family background was and things like that before you got into square dancing where you were born and brought up so forth.
Art Shepherd - Okay thanks Bob, well, I was born in the year of 1924 in a place called Littleton New Zealand. That's a seaport. My father was a retired ship's captain and was doing, he was a company, a steamship company rep. And my mother was a maternity nurse, we had a private maternity home, and so that's my arrival on this Earth. And I went to the Littleton District High School, which is the name of the school and then I finished there in 1939 and went into a special course at what's called a boy's school in Christ Church. Then the war came along so I volunteered for the "Royal New Zealand Air Force, and from there, after doing my basic training here in New Zealand, I was transferred to Canada. Finished my flying training, and from there I went into England and flew in the European Theatre.
[BB] Oh, did you ? Okay.
[AS] And at the end of the war, instead of coming back to New Zealand, I, because I had married Blanche in Canada at that time, I returned to Canada and joined the regular forces of the "Royal
Canadian Air Force", and from there I went into an instruction role and besides flying and administration, that in the end I ended up as a staff officer at the "School of Instructional Techniques". And during my sojourn at that particular school we got involved with square dancing and a guy by the name of Ernie Dempster and Lucille (?) was running a club on the base, so we were looking for some activity to do and that was our first sojourn into square dancing.
[BB] Okay, that according to your bio, that was around 1960.
[AS] Right.
[BB] Okay, and then you actually started calling a few years later, 1965 I think it said.
[AS] Oh well actually Bob (short laugh) it wasn't quite that late ah Bob
Brundage actually pardon me, Al Brundage was um doing an evening of calling at a place called Peterborough, Ontario which was about 80 miles of our airbase -
[BB] Ah
[AS] and (....) was a sort of learners beginners festival
[BB] Ah ha
[AS] so in 1960 we went up there and, on the way home, of all things, the
wheel, front right wheel fell off the bus.
[BB] Oh great
[AS] So we were stuck on the side of the road in this air force (...)
[BB] (short laugh)
[AS] sixty of us from the base going up -
[BB] Yeah
[AS] and Ernie in his ah way of doing things said "Okay, while we're waiting for the new bus to come and get us, everyone has to have a sing say or do.
[BB] (short laugh)
[AS] and uh, I opened my big mouth and sang "Waltzing Matilda"
[BB] Okay
[AS] coming from way down the South Pacific and, we got home rather late, or very early in the morning and that particular evening there was a knock on the front door and Ernie and Lucille were there and Ernie said "Can I come in and talk to you ?". And this was in 1960.
[BB] Yeah
[AS] He said ah "I think you have a nice voice and you use it on the bus,
here's two records, one's called "The Alabama Jubilee"
[BB] (short laugh)
[AS] and the other was "Arkansaw Traveller".
[BB] Okay
[AS} and he said "I've written you up a little pattern for the "Arkansaw
Traveller",which was the old pattern of the -
[BB] Yeah
[AS] uhh go across the square and turn the lady right come back -
[BB] Yeah
[AS] and I can't think of the name of the figure now
[BB] Right
[AS] and uh - so he came around three or four times and said "Okay it's
time" and then one evening he said ah " Okay - you can have a call tonight at the club"
[BB] (slightly longer laugh) Okay
[AS] so it was (....) on hand, which took at least another half hour to get
it out of my hand, after that first call. And that's how I got into calling,
with Ernie, and I called for about six months. And then our base, pardon me, our school, the "School of Instructional Techniques" was transferred to the Air Force base, and, there were four couples in the staff school who had got into square dancing -
[BB] Ah ha
[AS] and when we got to new base, they all decided that we would like to get square dancing going in the new base, oh, so we had a meeting on the base, and u,a whole bunch of people turned out and they said "Well, the only here who has got any experience in this is you - so you're the caller.
[BB] Okay (followed by short laugh)
[AS] That's how it started.
[BB] Right, right. Well that's very interesting. I was interested going
back to that festival that you went to that you say um, you said was me that was calling then ?
[AS] Um, oh, no, pardon me, um, ooh
[BB] You said
[AS] Al, um,
[BB] Al is my brother
[AS] Yep
[BB] Yeah
[AS] It was Al Brundage
[BB] It was Al, okay
[AS] Yeah
[BB] I remember I called in Canada one time at an, at an Air Force base -
and I thought maybe we happened to be at the same dance, but uh, that was the only time I called in Canada. But be that as it may. Okay. So, and then, it must have been around that time that you moved back to ah New Zealand ?
[AS] Well no actually - when I got to the new base I needed all the
equipment etc - so I made an application to the sports officer for some gear.
[BB] Yeah
[AS] He said "That's fine, but we'll buy it for you, but you need some
training in that field" -
[BB] Yeah
[AS] and it just so happened that Dave Taylor -
[BB] Yeah
[AS] and Earl Parke -
[BB] Okay
[AS] were running with, um, oh golly, dear oh gosh I can't think of her name at the moment, the lady caller that used to be well known in Toronto.
[BB] Um Marg Hoff
[AS] Marg Hoff, that's right -
[BB] Yeah
[AS] running at a place called Brace Bridge, or just outside of Brace Bridge -
[BB] Yeah
[AS] which was a couple of hundred miles north of the base -
[BB] Ah ha
[AS] a weeks callers school -
[BB] Oh yes
[AS] so I got into that, and we went up there, and got as much instruction from them as we could and about four months later the old Ed Gilmore -
[BB] Okay
[AS] came to a place not too far from the actual base that I was on at the time, a place called Clinton Ontario -
[BB] UM hum
[AS] and he was in (London ?) and he ran a weeks course, a caller's a school there -
[BB] Oh yeah
[AS] so I went down to that.
[BB] Ah ha
[AS] In the meantime, the "Toronto and District Council" had had people like um Dick um
[BB] Decko?
[AS] Dick from ahh Rhode Island
[BB] Ohh, Dick Ledger
[AS] Dick Ledger. Isn't it funny how names decline -
[BB] (short laugh) welcome to the club
[AS] Dick Ledger
[BB] Yeah
[AS] Um - Marshall Flippo
[BB] Yeah
[AS] Um - Frank Lane
[BB] Oh yeah
[AS] um - ohhh - all the guys that were going at that time came into Toronto and we used to have -
[BB] Yeah
[AS] caller sessions there as well -
[BB] I see
[AS] and so from sixty when I first started calling until I left Canada in
sixty five
[BB] Yeah
[AS] I had attended at least three caller's schools -
[BB] Good
[AS] and it was at that particular time I was also calling for five clubs in
Ontario -
[BB] Ah ha. Okay. Well
[AS] in nineteen sixty five, I retired from the air force and came to New
Zealand.
[BB] I see - okay - that er takes care of that then. Yeah it's funny, just a
couple of days ago I got Marg Hoff's address, and I got it from , um um,
Audrie Palmquest
[AS] Oh, right
[BB] You remember Audrie
[AS] Yeah, I remember Audrie, I remember even before she was Palmquest.
[BB] That's right, yes, I don't remember her maiden name, or her other
married name
[AS] No, I can't remember
[BB] It doesn't really matter, but
[AS] No, it doesn't
[BB] It's funny, I just got it, she's in Scarborough
[AS] And still alive ?
[BB] Yeah
[AS] Oh, great
[BB] Scarborough, Ontario
[AS] She's still in Scarborough
[BB] Yeah
[AS] She hasn't moved in all these years
[BB] Eleven Princemere Crescent. But anyway. Okay, so moving right along, ah, so now you've moved back to New Zealand, and um then you started the square dance activity there, and um, I understand at that time, there was very very little activity there. What was it, what was a topical, er a typical square dance kind of a program was going on when you moved back there ?
[AS] Well, when I arrived back in New Zealand, I found out that there was what we call an old time, if you want to call it that.
[BB] Yeah
[AS] The old time, Lady 'Round the Lady the Gent Don't Go that sort of thing.
[BB] Yeah
[AS] There was a club in a place called Gisborne -
[BB] Ah ha
[AS} up on the north east corner of New Zealand, and down in a place called Dunedin -
[BB] Oh, yeah
[AS] there was a modern western square dance club -
[BB] Ah ha
[AS] there was a caller by the name of Jim Donaldson, god rest his soul,
he's gone now -
[BB] ah ha
[AS] and that, he was doing things, (....) up to swing thru, which was going in those days.
[BB] Ah ha
[AS] and all the other things that were beyond it, he just said no - that's
not for me -
[BB] Hmmm
[AS] we'll do what we've been doing, and that was it. But they had a fine
club down in Dunedin at a place called a club called the "Wagon Wheelers"
[BB] Ah ha
[AS] and when I arrived in New Zealand there was a record club here in
Christchurch going (.....) this particular time ummm, which was still
surviving from 1933 -
[BB] Is that right ?
[AS] when a guy named "Happy Hill" -
[BB] Ah, okay
[AS] a caller from Calgary Alberta
[BB] Ah ha
[AS] was out here and had square dancing, the the old time square dancing going in the days just prior to the war.
[BB] Yeah
[AS] Yeah, square dancing was a fabulous activity, ahh, hundreds of people were going square dancing because, six basics and you had it all sort of thing -
[BB] Yeah
[AS] but that all faded during the war, of course, the men all went overseas etc etc, and uh, so it actually faded out and left these two little groups. One which was old time in the North Island, and one which had modernised -
[BB] Hmmm
[AS] in the South Island.
[BB] Yeah, okay. So you developed quite an active program there as I
understand.
[AS] Yes, we started out by going to the local radio stations and newspapers -
[BB] Ah ha
[AS] working off the American attitude that if you publicise you die
[BB] Right (short laugh)
[AS] and we were fortunate enough to get a magazine feature story in one of the national magazines as well as a big story in one of the local newspaper
[BB] Ah ha
[AS] and, we said we were available for charity functions to do square
dancing -
[BB] Yeah
[AS] and from there we traveled the whole of New Zealand, actually as far as basic civilization is concerned a place called Whangarei which is in the top end of the North Island down to a place called (Invercargill ?) which is in the southern part of New Zealand -
[BB] Ah ha
[AS] and we'd be on the road ah weekends, every weekend -
[BB] Yeah
[AS] running one night stands and fun nights -
[BB] Yeah
[AS] as well as getting a club going right here in Christchurch.
[BB] Ah ha Good, well, so ah, and that was around nineteen sixty five was it ?
[AS] sixty five, sixty six
[BB] Yeah right. Okay. So ah, I know you've been active in Callerlab, ah,
why don't you tell us um, your affiliation there ?
[AS] Yeah, I think it was nineteen sixty three, if I remember rightly, I got
a letter from Bob Osgood -
[BB] Ah ha
[AS] who I'd been associated with of course in North America. And Bob said that Callerlab was being formed, and he sent me an invitation, because if I remember rightly it was by invitation only.
[BB] Ah ha, yes
[AS] Ah so -
[BB] About that time, yeah
[AS] so we looked at it and thought "Well, this is what we need". We were looking at the sort of programs we were doing, ah, though we were getting bits and pieces from here and there and nothing was really standard, shall we say, and nobody had a real program as such.
[BB] Yeah, Ah ha
[AS] one guy in Florida, I cannot think of his name now. You'll know who he was, he was a choreographer but not a caller
[BB] Oh, Jack Lasry, no
[AS] No, not Jack -
[BB] No
[AS] in seventy four, but before that -
[BB] Okay
[AS] there was a guy works, worked out of Florida who was a choreographer and put out caller's notes
[BB] Oh yes,
[AS] Umm -
[BB] Well... I don't
[AS] his name escapes me
[BB] Yeah, it does me too, go ahead.
[AS] Umm, so I bought into his notes,and he had a program going on basic. Which was twenty five, and I think the next one was sixty, and the next one was seventy five basics -
[BB] Ah ha
[AS] and I had been using that program
[BB] Yeah
[AS] um, while I was, before I got this information about Callerlab. So I
thought it was a very fine idea that we're going to get ah or try to get a world standard of (....) -
[BB] Yeah
[AS] lists and things -
[BB] Uh hu
[AS] the programs and the teaching guides ideas and concepts. And so we decided that we would go to Callerlab at Saint Louis in seventy four, so we went and ah thoroughly enjoyed ourselves. And of course it was great to meet all those people who were part -
[BB] Yeah -all right
[AS] that came along. I think there were, from memory, one hundred and four callers -
[BB] Yeah
[AS] at the first one at Saint Louis.
[BB] Yeah
[AS] There's one major thing I remember about Saint Louis is when we had the final feast, as we used to call it -
[BB] (short laugh)
[AS] on the final evening, or (...), we all had, um, what do you call it in
United States, uh rib roast -
[BB] Oh yeah
[AS] yeah, oh beautiful meal. And everybody's giving the meat back because it was underdone.
[BB] Oh dear (short laugh)
[AS] but that was my sojourn into Callerlab, and, I subscribe to the ideas and principles of Callerlab
[BB] Yeah
[AS] and by that time, of course, in New Zealand we had organized the "New Zealand Caller's and Cuers Association" which I have been President, Vice President, Secretary, Treasurer -
[BB] Yeah
[AS] and I'm now a life member -
[BB] Yeah
[AS] um, and introduced the Callerlab program into the activity here in New Zealand, and I must say, it's still going.
[BB] Yeah. You know, un, unfortunately Art, I just sitting looking at my
recording machine. And it's battery operated -
[AS] Oh
[BB] and my low battery blinker is blinking. And I'm sure we're still
recording now, but I, I seriously wonder how long this is going to last. So
I should replace the batteries -
[AS] Okay
[BB] and uh
[AS] I'll hang on
[BB] No, I don't want, I don't, I would be kind of a project for me to
change the batteries at the moment -
[AS] Okay
[BB] so why don't I call you again ?
[AS] Okay, you give me a call um -
[BB] and I'll promise to call you (short laugh) at 6 o'clock.
[AS] No, no, this time is fine, it's not a problem, because Thursday night
we go out and the families all get together, we have a meal together -
[BB] Yeah
[AS] so It's, it's not a problem.
[BB] Okay, well, no I'll call you. Is noon time convenient for you ?
[AS] Noon time, New Zealand time or American time ?
[BB] Yeah, no, New Zealand time.
[AS] Yes, umm, when were you thinking of it ? Any particular..
[BB] Well, um, today's Thursday, what about er , what about tomorrow
[AS] Tomorrow at noon, just one moment
[BB] And that would be 6 o'clock this evening, here.
[AS] Yeah. No that's okay, call me at noon tomorrow. I'll shall be here.
[BB] All right. Well let's do that, and I'll um, I'll get these batteries
changed during the day
[AS] (softly) Okay
[BB] and uh, because there's some other things I want to ask you, and I want to get it down on tape. And I apologise for doing it this way, but -
[AS] No, that's alright Bob, I understand
[BB] Yeah. Alright, so I'll call you
[AS] Alright
[BB] Alright, so I'll call you ah
[AS] My time noon, your time 6 o'clock I guess
[BB] Yeah I'm gonna be, yeah, it'll be uh, I'll wait until just after six
o'clock, um, so that I get the cheaper telephone rate
[AS] Right
[BB] Okay, and I think it starts at six, or maybe it's at five, but be that
as it may, I'll call you this evening which will be, ah, ah, ah, noon
tomorrow for you.
[AS] That'll be great.
[BB] I hope
[AS] Okay
[BB] Okay, thank you Art. Goodnight.
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