Bob Brundage – Well here we are again, today, this is Bob Brundage again. Today I am in Newtown Connecticut, right near Danbury and the date is November the 14th. Today were talking to Chip Hendrickson, a gentleman whose been around and involved in club dancing for awhile and then reverted back to his old love of folk dancing, and so forth. We’re anxious to hear from Chip. So Chip, tell us a little about what life was like before you got into square dancing, and then how you got in and who influenced you and one thing and another. Go ahead.
Chip Hendrickson – Ok. Well, I lived in the small town of Oceanside on Long Island. That’s where I grew up really, and I wound up out there because of World War II. I was living in Brooklyn and my mother and my brother, they were afraid the Brooklyn Navy Yard would be bombed so we went out to Oceanside, and I lived out there. And in 1945 I started dancing at a native American place, culture and dance, and in 1945, and I still dance … in fact, the day after tomorrow I’m teaching it at a thing with Cub Scouts. Well anyway … and I got involved as a teenager because I went dancing with various teen friends and their parents and one of them was a folk dance leader whose face I can see but I can’t remember her name. And I met a … I used to dance a lot and one of the callers was named Al Leahman. And Al did one night stands which we all went to because they were fun.
BB – Right.
CH – And I watched what he was doing and I got hooked. And he encouraged me and I bought a couple of 78’s because that’s all you could (unintelligible) And I started to learn to call and I talked to him. He was really very patient
BB – Yeah, I remember that name.
CH – Al Leahman, oh yeah, he was a wonderful man. But he …. he had it figured out and he had no truck with any of the organized dances which, by today’s standards were just almost like one night stands. You did Right and Left Thru’s and Chains and things. But he had nothing to do with that, all he did was church dances and things like that. Well one day we went, and I can see some of the people, it was Al, his little three piece band and there was one, two, other couples there and their names right this second I can’t remember, Elaine and I … there was exactly a square and nobody from the VFW came. It was in Lynbrook, but nobody came. So he said to me, “Would you like to call?” that dance. And it was “All ??? the line“, Paul Hunt’s “All ??? the line“. Yea, I was, I was petrified, but I did it. I went over and I told the band, and of course all the square dancers, four couples knew the dance and I’m standing there and nothing’s happening. And nothing’s happening. And Al walks over to the fiddler and comes back to me and I was supposed to say “Honor Your Partner” and “Honor Your Corner”. But on the record they just had da, da, da, da, da and I’m waiting for them to start. So that was the first time I called and I was petrified. And then he gave me a dance in the Catskills and I had an old ’38 Dodge that had no first gear. And I was down in a little hollow and there was some kind of band with hay all over the floor, it wasn’t a really a square dance band, but I got through it. And that was my first paid gig. And I don’t remember the date and that started it. And your brother Al gave me my first club dance, out of town club dance in the Hartford Club, but I don’t remember the year. But in the meantime I met a guy named Bill Castner, and he was actually the first one to point out phrase calling to me, believe it or not. And he was a master of it.
BB – He really was.
CH - And a lot of people didn’t realize it, but that was why he was so smooth. I watched his performing group in ’67 in Philadelphia and he … they would phrase a routine to a record and the record ran out and he put the record back, picked up the phrase and the dancers did a hop, skip and they were in phrase again and I was like, “Yeah, pro-fessional”. But the real mentor was Ed Gilmore.
BB – Sure.
CH – I met Ed and I sat up with him in the wee hours many, many times. He and Dru also were such a help. He was so giving. And he just like … I can remember I made a tape of myself calling patter calls and I played a little for him dreading what he was going to say. And he just matter-of- factly said, “It’s very boring“. And he was right. And then he showed me I was going (in a monotone) daa-di-daa-di-daa-di-daa and he says raise your voice and lower your voice. Because, you know he couldn’t sing. Listen to his singing calls, he never sang. But he was a musician and he recorded and I told this to somebody and he said, “What?”. I said, “Listen to him, he doesn’t sing”. He gets you to sing though. He was a master. And he taught me so much. But he actually taught me almost as much about life because he told me, when he heard I was being a caller, he said, “Be analytical”. And he says, “Don’t just analyze the good callers that you like, analyze what you don’t like so you won’t do it”. And I spent a long time watching different callers, and I’d steal a little from Bruce Johnson, I mean, that’s how you learn. You borrow from this and you borrow from that. But it was because Ed said, “Be analytical”.
BB – Yeah.
CH – And I watched him like a hawk, and he was a master. And he predicted the downfall, and he warned about the levels and he warned about it, he said, “Don’t categorize people”. But you know, and then he got seriously ill and died. And he didn’t write down enough. He should have written down more because he had so much wisdom. But again, he was a philosopher. I mean, he was looking at more than dance. And he’s the one that coined close order drill with women. (Bob chuckles) And I still have his and Dru’s Jiu-jitsu For Dancers. I have it somewhere. And I could, and if I find it I will send it to you. It always ended with smile sweetly. Especially for ladies. It was judo for the ladies because the women are always the ones getting yanked around as they are in contra dancing today. But I can remember the floating allemande, 1, 2, 3, kick.
BB – Yes right.
CH – He said if your getting your arms … there come backs that were ???? and then smile sweetly as you help him up off the floor. (Bob chuckles) You know it was things like that. And that was humor to teach. Somewhere I’ve got that.
BB – I don’t ever know if you ever heard … I don’t know as I ever put it on tape and it just occurred to me … and it’s a good time to put it in. He said …. he used to teach round dancing, and he said, “You know, we do a step close step and that’s a two step, and we do a step, step close and now we’ve got a waltz”. And then he says, “I’ve devised a new system”. He said, “You start with your feet apart and you go close, step, step.
CH – He did that? I think I heard that story somewhere. I didn’t know it was him. But it sounds like something he’d do. Because he was so, he was so impassive when he called. The only thing that moved was his toe….
BB – yeah.
CH – ….but his eyes sparkled. He loved what he did. He was way ahead on sound. He was ahead of his time, he was just marvelous … his records … do you remember when he came out with his boom chuck records? He turned the square dance world upside down.
BB – Sure, Boom Chuck Boys.
CH – But those were accompaniment records to make the recordings sound like there was a band there instead of him. And then he got into the Mel Henke jazz trio which was the latest series. And on one of the recordings you can hear a tink, tink, tink, in the background and I asked him what it was and he said the bass player took the monitor and turned it like that and it was the beep from the little speaker coming out and they decided to leave it in.
BB – I’ll be darned.
CH - But those recordings of the Mel Henke trio are done so many times through and then doubled because he said they couldn’t play that kind of music too long but he did that and they were true accompaniment records. I mean, and every time he came out with a singing call it was a hit. Because all the dancers were … hit, he is the one that taught me … I remember one time saying … a new record came out and I was looking at Sets In Order at the figures and everything and he would say, “This isn’t any good”. And I said, “Have you tried it?” And he said, “no, but it isn’t any good”. “How do you know”? and I get to laughing and he starts going down the figures he’s writing numbers, number of steps, he says “This comes out to 74”. He says, “That’s how many more beats than 64”. He says, “You’ve got 10 more steps you’ve got to fit in there and the dancers are going to be running”. He showed me another one and there’d be 62 or 66 and he says, “The couple will be too late”. And you know, it worked, and after awhile I used to do the same thing. I’d just say, “Well, I’m not going to use that one”. If the music’s good I’d buy it and get another dance to it … he taught me that. And he was so … he was positive and he was right because that’s all got lost. Now, it’s just run.
Well, remember when Grenn and Top they came out with so called phraseless records, which really weren’t, I mean you can’t do that and have Western Culture music, you know, but anyway. And so Ed was really my major force. Then, there was a guy named Bill Jeneck that taught me about sound and how to solder and things. He was a caller on Long Island. And that was a help because I did all my own re-phasing. That is where I learned about phasing of speakers which helps. Still does, although that is not so important any more because the halls are better. I belonged to the Long Island Callers Association eventually. Initially I was turned down because I didn’t…. I didn’t have enough experience even though I had one of the biggest dances in the area and they took somebody older than me. By the way, how you treat people, has a great effect on life. You’ve got to be real careful what you do because here I was, I was calling for this club once a month. I had a big crowd. I was popular. Here is another guy who was calling no longer than I was … and I was actually … always had been a better caller than him in a lot of ways but that’s neither here nor there, nice guy. We took him in cause he was older…. years older…. they wouldn’t take me. And I was so mad. I wore western clothes and I didn’t say, Do-si-do”, I said, “Do-sa-do” and that … I helped push club dancing into Long Island and crush the other, although that wasn’t my objective. My objective was to distance myself … but then eventually they were asking me to join when I was famous up and down the East coast. So be careful how you treat people. You may get the wrong reaction. I was just a pig-headed kid then but I was really ticked off and I still feel to this day I was right, because, you know, and I know who did it, but it’s all past but that’s what happens.
And so I came up here and joined the Connecticut Callers Association. I never got into Callerlab because you had to attend the convention. At the time I had to get out of work and I was raising five kids and I couldn’t afford it. And you know, I had four or five clubs and I was making records and I couldn’t go, and I resented it so, when I could afford it I wouldn’t go. I just resented THAT. This really bugged me, so I never bothered. I joined the American Callers Association though I didn’t this year, only for the insurance because I’m covered, and also for the BMI and ASCAP. Although I very rarely ever use it. I mean I do dance after dance Irish or Scottish all public domain and occasionally I want to do a singing call. And just to cover my tail I get it, you know, but they’re not really interested in little guys like me because I don’t do it that often. Never went to a training school really, though I spent a week out in Wisconsin with … Gilmore … I think your brother, and Nita and Manning Smith …
BB – Yeah, we did a lot of things together …
CH – On the lake out there we’d camp. But it was really … everybody who came was callers I think but maybe two or three oddballs so you had egos ….. and fun, it was funny, but that was a training school but I listened to ‘em when they were up at the Hotel Thayer. Ed any time I could get there, plus many at three or four in the morning … talking to him and picking his brains. And of course he loved coffee.
BB – (laughs) And cigarettes
CH – Unfortunately, cigarettes are what killed him. I knew this and when we went and danced to him I always brought a thermos along, you know. I’m not kidding you … and it’s about time, or something … and I made him … and when he stayed with us I made him a card, somewhere I might have a copy, NOOF, National Order of Freeloaders. And I made it up …. I only made one which was for him, and on the back it had a list of special requirements and one of them was plenty of hot coffee at all times. And I laminated it and gave it to him … because they used to stay with us on Long Island, and he told me some months later that he was at a … somewhere and there was no coffee, and he says, “I’m dying” and he says, “I’m too polite to ask”, so he says, “Oh, Chip Hendrickson made me this card” and he showed it around and all of a sudden the hostess went, “Oh!” and laughed and he said, “It got me my coffee”. So he thanked me for it. He said he used it. But somewhere I have it and it was all Leroy lettering then I didn’t have the type setter. My hobbies have always been reading. I used to do model railroading. I don’t consider Native American a hobby, it’s a lifestyle. I mean we’re, in fact right behind you is that dress she’ll be … right behind your head is that jingle dress that I made Fran, I mean ….
BB – Yeah I’ve seen you ...
CH - Yes, and that’s hers. It’s right off the corner there. And if you brush into it you will hear it jingle. And, as I said, we will be teaching Saturday morning Cub Scouts and then there will be a pow wow in the afternoon, and I’ll dress up for the night for the dance and there’ll be Part Bloods, Half bloods, No bloods, and Cold bloods and my Lakota friend might be there. That’s…. I don’t call that a hobby, that’s just a way of living. And that is actually probably the only dance form that I’m in that is a dance for its own … it’s a dance for a getting together’s sake. It’s not, “Oh, let’s learn Indian dancing”. We dance because we meet and it’s … and this is a good thing to do which is what all the dancing used to be and this is what Western Square Dancing has lost and right now, Country Western has. They have this friendly community and in Square Dancing … friendship is Square Dancing’s greatest reward, you know that …
BB – Yes.
CH – That’s nice. Bowling, Country Western, ballroom, native American, any activity where people get together is the friendship so… throwing that out and feeling good about it is not going to get you more dancers. It is not going to solve the problem and I’m not knocking it, but any activity where humans come together is what brings people together. But then, the activity can’t be divisive and club dancing as I see it is very divisive, unfortunately. And it’s partly…. partly due to lack of leadership. And I got in trouble lots of time because I refused to raise the level, because I knew better, but they didn’t respect my opinion. But that’s what happens. When they hire me back … but the people who liked me voted by leaving. They’re never saying anything … and when I called up at … the club danced in a circular hall sort of and I had 10 1/2 squares outside of Boston at 9:30 the vice President … some of the officers weren’t there … the Vice President says, “This is remarkable” and I says, “What ?”. I’m looking around and there is two couples having refreshments … open refreshments … and I said, “So” and he says, “Two weeks ago when we had a big name” … and I knew who it was but I won’t say … he said, “We had 2 1/2 squares even” and they had the same size crowd, 10 1/2 squares so I was drawing. And it comes 10 o’clock and he says, “This is amazing” and I look around and I says, “What?” He says, “One couple went home, he is a milk man and he has to get up at 4 in the morning”. I said, “So? ” and he says, “Two weeks ago 2 and 1/2 squares were gone”. I was never hired back. Which means I pleased everybody
BB – But him.
CH – Or whoever. And what can we do. I’m not … you see there are callers who are clever enough to play both sides of the fence, I’m just not that way. I just…. I just am not that way. So, when they said, “I don’t enjoy this” and I’m looking at my watch…. I’m looking at my watch, and I quit. And I just walked away from it. And had some misgivings but it was … in the long run it was the smartest thing I ever did.
What I did in my life, I was always a graphic artist or technical illustrator. And that’s why the book I showed you, that’s all those years of training I finally got a chance to be expressive on my own. And, and, and people who know graphics say I’m doing a good job. You know. But anyway, you won’t think I did that if you looked at it. He’d say, “Oh, he paid somebody”. But that is a good open cover. I could tell you why but that is another story. But that is what my background did for me. And I’ve been a full time caller off and on and I’ve had as many as four or five clubs, you know, and clubs fold and things change and I had Ed Rutty, he called in Millington after I left, I just got tired of being pushed.
BB – He is still there.
CH – And he is still there and he does a good job, and we’re all happy. We weren’t happy at the time.
The first time I called, September 22, 1951, I told you, in Lynbrook. First paid dance in the Catskills. I’ve been a caller, sometimes paid and sometimes one that called … do you remember the Atlantic Conventions?
BB – Sure, sure.
CH – You remember the Mechanics Hall and the building rocked. And I remember Bruce Johnson standing there and watching that 800 people doing Alamo style almost in tears, and he told me he said, “We’ve lost that back in California” and that was back in the ‘50s. And he said, “Any time I’m in the East I call … that’s the one we used to do the balance, all the way and the room … Boom, Boom, Boom, oh yeah. And so I did them and that later became the New England Square Dance Festival which I did, calling off and on. And I was in Louisville, Kentucky which was one of the last times they had live music.
BB – Oh yeah.
CH – Because I remember one big heavy set guy from the Northwest coast of Seattle, Jack somebody, who had the band
BB – Jack Barbour.
CH – Jack Barbour, he was there and the string bands from Texas were there and Sleepy Marlin was there, Slim Sterling was there, oh yeah, you know, and I was at one of the last (live) music dances. It was a shame when that went. And I’m still amazed to this day that callers would use records and say I can’t call to live music. What do they think is on the records? It’s a band and for years when I was a NEFFA specialist (editors note: The New England Folk Festival Association), and this sort of faded out, Fran and I, she usually came, and I had one on How To Turn On A Band, and it was how to work with a band. Well Dave Hoscamp … which is why I’ve taken him to New York City to Lincoln Center where I do that big 2 hour beginner dance with 800 people and you’re on a stage thirty feet from the nearest dancer you have to teach verbally with a live band. And Dave was one of the few that can do it. Dick Leger came with me and did it once. But I haven’t used many in the Western field because there aren’t many around. If you were still around I could use you. Because you know what phrasing is and you also know how to keep it easy. And I don’t … an interesting thing … do you know Sleepy Marlins Sally Goodin?
BB – Yes.
CH – I’ve had the recording what, 40 years? I still use it … I’ve taped it now … I still use it at one night stands and I still get all excited and I get into that thing, and I’ve heard it …. 1000 times. But they’re advertising Carol Channing now. She is up at the Oakdale Theater, but she was interviewed some years ago on Broadway and she is doing her 1000th performance and they asked her if she got bored. And she says, “Heavens no”. She says, “When I do I quit ?”. And I can relate to her. See again, I’m beyond them, I can relate to her and still get turned on by that song and he’s probably dead and gone by now.
BB – I have no idea.
CH – A little guy. Big cigars. But there’s a life to that, and we get into the music. In fact, the one thing when I switched out of club dancing into traditional was, I came home far less tired because I didn’t have to emote…/ create excitement, I just let the music … you know that music, the English/Irish background to all the square dance and the people just … I just sit there and grin and cue and shut up when I can. You know, I get paid lots of money and I don’t have to … I can wear any clothes, and I don’t have to impress anybody. No notes, no preparation. If the floor gets … If I have a problem I write the dance on the spot. Al Brozek does the same…. exact same thing. He many times has got in a situation he just takes out his pen, writes a few notes, calls a phrase dance and he adds it to the lexicon. You know, I do singing calls but I use … I don’t use the old traditional tunes, like Darling Nellie Gray, I’ll call Uptown-Downtown with Golden Slippers. I might call it to a singing call, My Way that Grenn put out or something like that. I love Tom Paxton’s, The Last Thing on My Mind. I might do things like that. Which is one of the reasons I want to stay with BMI to be covered just in case some guy just walks in.
BB – I use Shindig in the Barn.
CH – I still use that, it’s on the back of my Sally … that’s on the back of the tape of Sally Goodin. I love that thing. Remember, that was a singing call everybody learned his own … it was a great piece of music. Beautiful.
BB – I think it was Ken Bower.
CH – Yeah. That’s right. I don’t even know what the dance was because I didn’t care. But the music was so good. They made good music. They made good dance music.
Another one of the highlights…. I just wrote down ‘friends’ … were all the new people we met over the years, traveling. Cause back in the earlier days you were always put up in somebody’s house. Then the callers … and this is what I was told … a lot of these callers would prefer to be alone in a motel and then the dancers lost that idea and then people got busy and pretty soon I had to pay so then you either had to charge more or not make as much money. You know what I mean.
One of my real highlights, ’67, was the Country Steppers exhibition team that I had out of Alliance Squares. And we went to Philadelphia and we did a six minute … because I had an LP of hoedown music, Windsor, when they made the 10 inch ones, six minutes. I think it was Ida Red but I don’t remember. But we did 6 minute routine with two squares … promenade in, two squares, went to a contra line, went back to two squares, went to a big square, went back to two squares and we did Venus and Mars in there and I have all the notes, and I may resurrect it. And then they went into a circle and then one couple at a time they spin the lady and then kneel. And we brought down the house. Sets In Order picked up on and wrote on it. We had been in existence nine months. Bill Castner’s group fifteen years and we were in the same line. Earl Johnston, Charlie Baldwin they didn’t know we had this, they didn’t know. And we went around. Well, the other day at NOMAD (editors note: Northeast Music and Dance Festival) I met Vic and Ellie Knoll. Vic is crew cut, you know, straight ramrod back marine … and I said, “Marine, once a Marine always a Marine” … I got a friend in the Native American circles who is an ex Marine (laughs) and he has got a crew cut, a marine flag hanging off his teepee pole . You know, I’m lost. Oh, yeah, Vic and Ellie were in that group, and now…. do you know what they do now? They don’t club dance, they don’t square dance at all. They are in a Country Western exhibition team. And I said I want to revive that someday at NOMAD and they said, “Were here”. And all I need is 16 phrase dancers and I have the routine again.
BB – You could get Dick Forcsher.
CH – Oh, good old Dick, yeah. But it would require renting a hall.
BB – Was he at NOMAD this year?
CH – I didn’t see him but that doesn’t mean anything.
BB – That was the last time that I saw him at your NOMAD Festival.
CH – I don’t know. I’d have to ask Fran. I mentioned all those highlights, all the long talks with Ed Gilmore, Bruce Johnson. Bruce Johnson and I in Richmond sat in a hotel room to God knows what hours talking about dancing. We were talking always about the problem and how do we head it off. But we, meaning him … cause I’m not the only one … we were a minority. And at the time all you needed was a record player and you get some people and you were a hero. I mean, there was that guy from Long Island who when he danced … Kopman, remember him?
BB – Sure.
CH – When he first came to dance to me he…. he couldn’t dance. I don’t know if he can dance but he certainly did well with what he did. I admire him for that, you know. But it just doesn’t interest me because I come from the school of dancing … is…. is not walking around on your heels, and that’s what it’s…. it’s not. Remember we used to have the shuffle …
BB – Sure.
CH – Shew, shew, shew, shew. I remember you and many other callers would turn the music down and you could hear it. Now you hear heel, heel, heel, you wouldn’t hear the shuffle anymore. And it’s all gone. But interesting. There was a caller over here in the next town over who said … we were talking about something and he said, “You know, I came in in the ‘70s and I didn’t see what you saw”. He didn’t see the 30 or 40 squares. He didn’t see the barn. He didn’t see the crowds that pulse because we worked phrase dancing, even if some of the callers didn’t know it and the dancers didn’t know it they just did it. And then when it got to be mish mash that was the great change and of course now they have to deal with it.
And then I was on TOP, recording records for awhile. And most of them I liked. There were just one or two that I wished … that I think any caller will tell you that, you know. I was … these are just some thoughts I wrote some of which I said. I think we (went) through a peak wave of public involvement in the activity and I, I think it’s social and economic has changed it. If you want to play the game you have to get out of being a dance teacher and study society. I stayed with a friend down in Maryland just outside of Virginia, I just did a 9:30 in the morning till 10:30 at night with a lunch and supper break, 18th century live music in the evening and he’s an anthropologist who studies … I found out that’s the study of human beings, etc. etc. and how they interact. Now I’m trying for Dick … and he is doing this for leadership for business and he was saying that the changes that are going on today and the fact that in order to survive today you have to be able to change … you know in the past my granddaddy lived this way and I’ll live this way and my kids will … that’s gone. Fran brought home a book, “What’s Coming in Business After the 60 Hour Workweek”. It’s already here. We have no more money, middle management is going and the 45 year job is gone. And I learned years ago in life there is no security, you know that there is no security. So what. Fine. Just get on with it and stop worrying about it. If your number is up and a 747 is coming through my house, there is nothing you can do about it. So don’t worry about it. I mean, be careful when you drive and all that, and you know.
So here we go, all this change going on and all that I see out of Callerlab … I don’t see much … or either one now is they keep changing the list. And one of the things I wrote in that piece that I’ll get you, I said, “You can change the lists all you want but you’ve got to get back to basics”. So what does that mean? That means gentle, get down. And like that thing in this folk dance thing here he said, “Make it easy for beginners to get in”. And, “Make it exciting so people aren’t bored”, quote unquote. Boredom is self induced. Bored is an attitude because what bores you might not bore me. And vice-versa. So therefore it isn’t the dance, it’s the way you look at it. And I think that the dance teachers train this. In Plus they pay homage to the hot shots who … and ???? are the only ones that tell them how great they are. You know what I mean? Plus, I think the callers get bored doing the same thing all the time. But see, I’m … you mentioned Terry Golden earlier as an entertainer … I consider myself as an entertainer when I go out and do a dance. And the…. and the dance is my genera to do it. But I’m entertaining people. I have fathers and daughters smiling. I get them to go forward and back. I teach them one, two and a cha cha cha. And I always tell them, “Don’t tell any other callers that I am using cha cha cha”. But you know, I’m telling ‘em … but two hours later when I call Forward and Back the old Virginia Reel at the end there they are going One, Two, Boom_Boom_Boom. Which you can’t get any … you can’t get your club dancers to go forward and back in eight beats. Contra dancers will, but they’ve got their own little steps. And I just, I just take the same handful of figures, circle, do-si-dos, promenades, Sicilian, right and left hand stars, maybe single file lead, chassez or sashay as they call them now. But that’s all I use in two hours and I just keep shuffling the figures and music around and you can fool a lot of people all the time … you couldn’t do it week after week you’d have to have an arrangement, but I’ve found some of my old square dance books, and I used to call certain dances, figure dances where Slim Sterling had one he called Looks Like L and there were dancers like this where you had eight in a line, or two lines of four facing the same way. You have to learn the dance, you can’t hash it. And there are millions of … they’re beautiful dances but the callers would rather, you know, just throw the stuff out. And I had written in the New England Caller, and in fact I published it, that’s not the name of it, the magazine.
BB – Northeastern Square Dance.
CH – Some guy from Callerlab he wrote about phrase calling and I had to write a letter to them. And the letter was to them to tell them that they had been printing three times … I had given three courses in their magazine in the seventies. I said, “Nobody paid any attention but I just wanted to let you know that you actually did this“. But in the course of it I called the present what callers are doing ‘humbug‘ because what they do when somebody comes up with a new basic, and you know the first thing is, “What does it equal”. It equals a right and left thru and a ladies chain. You can then plug that into a simple basic sequence, like heads to the right Circle to a Line, Right and Left Thru and back and Allemande Left. Well you can plug in Cast Offs and Wheels and Deals, Swing Thrus, and Slide Thrus, and you can go on for five minutes and you haven’t done a damn thing but run people around in a circle. And if there is no joy in it … who cares, you see. So actually I call it ‘humbug‘. You know, I say, “I bet you can take Burleson’s 5000 calls and boil it down to probably 500 and then throw the rest away. And then take the 500 and you probably could break them down into basics. Because if you look at a French Contra…. Contra Dance or Cotillion I got diagrams upstairs back from the 1760s. I mean, you think your diagramming is new and all … you ought to see the stuff those people were doing. Oh, I mean, complicated and every single dance is on the money just like a round dance and that’s how they danced it. They’re complicated. But they were upper class, they nothing better to do, and also stage dancing. But if you think this complication is new… they had almost 300 dances. Oh, I’d love to do them but I’d have to have an expert group of dancers and nothing better … it would take half an hour to do one dance you know, but anyway they did it. I think the activity … well, this phrase my wife uses all the time …
Tape clicks off abruptly, end of side one. )
BB – Let’s see, we wanted to turn the tape over and we were talking about one of Fran’s favorite expressions.
CH – Yeah, I thought that instead … I’ll just, I’ll just read this ‘cause I had written this when I was thinking about it. “We have been through the peak wave of public involvement in the activity. This because square dancing was relevant in our culture in years past. I don’t think it is now, unless some one… some one realizes the emperor has no clothes“. Fran is always saying that. The same all old platitudes and figure shuffling will continue. The activity needs to be approached from social and philosophical attitude and direction. Saying square dancing is fun is nice but so what. The definition of fun is far too vague. Taking drugs is fun for some. Beating people up is fun for others. Instead of wishing and hoping the Country Western fad would die (take) a look at what they’re doing and why it works should be the approach. Also, what’s not working with it. Besides, Cajun, or something else may attract the public. Be careful what you wish for. In Newtown approximately 400 people Country Western every Thursday night. The night before it’s ballroom dancing. There are 3.2 million people in Connecticut and less than 800 attended the last festival. Club callers I’ve talked to don’t think there are 3000 dancers in the whole state anymore. I don’t know but that’s what they told me. Is square dancing the folk dancing of Connecticut? Not really. Remember the Emperor’s clothes. This is true everywhere. The times they are a changing rapidly. Square dancing is back at the starting line now.
And I wrote a little line here but I’ll tell you a story. Years ago, Earl Johnston, Dave Haas and I rode up in Dave’s Mercedes, ‘cause I remember it was a Mercedes because it was the first time I had ever rode in one … and we went up to the Massachusetts line where there was a restaurant where callers and I used to meet, and I can’t remember the name of the town, but it begins with an A I think. It’s right on the Mass/Connecticut line. I met Dick Leger (and you might ask him about this) Dick Leger, and Jim Mayo and I think Dana Blood was the other caller, it was at least 20 years ago, at least. And we met and we had dinner on a Good Friday and we had dinner…. and I don’t know who proposed this or why…. we had dinner, and after dinner we went up in a little conference room and we sat around and talked and nobody taped it. We talked about phrasing and timing and the problems of dance, better and how to change it. And one of us said something about the establishment and Earl Johnston stopped us cold and he said, “Guys, we’re the establishment”. Dead silence. Dead silence for a minute, you know. He stunned us, you know, you go along and you don’t realize who you are, if you are, you know I’m just me. But anyway it was Earl that said either coming or going the best thing … and this was only a couple of years ago Earl said this, and you can check with him … he said to me basically, “The best thing that could happen to square dancing would be for it to die completely so that we could get it right the next time” or some words like that. And that was over 20 years ago, and I agreed with him, at the time because you could see where it was going. But it … when something is going well nobody wants to change it. It’s like with these … pollution and all the rest of it, “Oh, it’s all right”, but then one day when the clouds come in and the people are dying well then we better do something. And then all those people who were right, were right, but you know …
BB – It’s too late.
CH – Yeah, well it’s like around here with the building, right around … My daughter works in a school. Two years ago they built a wing on it and they run out of room there building houses in Sandy Hook (which is part of Newtown) like crazy. Who is going to pay for all of that? Not the tax from the houses. Ridgefield just bonded 20 something million dollars to block a golf course and ensuing homes because they figured out it would be cheaper to do that than have to add wings to schools and hire teachers in the long run. And now this is going to start, you’re going to start to see this around the country because you can’t … I mean you know the builders have to make a living … but who is going to pay for it? We’ve just got sewers here. We need them in this area. But I heard that the truck … the town plow drivers will not plow this road unless they pave it. So we know it is going to be paved before the freeze comes in. But I heard in other parts of town where they had 40 foot wide roads they’re cutting back 10 feet to make … because, you know, the road only has to be 30 feet wide with curbs. So they have less snow to push because of the money and the time, and, of course, because they keep building more roads. So it’s not just dance. But, I don’t know, Gilmore was a philosopher and I think you really have to look at the whole picture, not your own room and dance floor. I mean, that’s my own opinion of the whole thing. And the only reason I know anything about club dancing is ‘cause I have several friends who are still in it. And we get together and I used to just ask them, “What’s going on?” And when I talk to them, you know, none of them are wringing their hands and crying but they all tell you flat out, “It’s not what it was”. You know Alan Brozek, Als been calling 25 or 30 years by now and he is just my age but he was a musician. He was a New England champion drummer in high school. New England, not Connecticut, New England, and he still plays the bones and he uses live music. And he does ??? dances and he does one night stands and calls traditional and all that. So, he still has one club but he used to have several but they aren’t around any more. And you know Al is … he was always pragmatic about the whole thing and he has a place to go. And he enjoys them. He enjoys the one night stands as much as I do because the joy of dance is there. And remember, club dancers would say. “Oh, that’s not real dancing”. Sure in heck is. It’s realer than what they are doing. More real. You know what I mean. And there’s a real joy there. And there is joy in club dancing but it seems to depend on the caller. It’s like in the different areas around here, the different churches. The churches that are booming it will always turn out to be the pastor, be it a he or she. And if that person leaves, the church can fall back down. So definitely they’re callers like Ed Rutty, and some, they hold the club together because they’re nice people, you know, and then the ones that aren’t. I can think of whole bunches of names of so called hot shots, “Whatever happened to?”. They didn’t make it because of their arrogance you know, and of course now, people just won’t put up with it. So basically that’s it … where …. where I have been. And what I do miss is the ability to go out and do a dance and just call and not have to teach. And at NOMAD I had an hour of squares in the main hall and they put on ads ‘some experience required‘, and I was able to do just walk throughs, you know, Swanee River, Lady Around the Lady … just walk through that once or twice and then just call it. And that I like. And there were a couple of dances I said, “You can do this” and I just called it. And they could and … but on the phrase, and I was talking to two callers that were asking me about what I had done … one was from Pennsylvania and I forget where the other one was from … and I said, “What you heard was something that’s dying”. I said, “When I go … only a few of us do that”. And I said, ”You realize I was doing a pure Quadrille”. And they shook their heads yes, because I’m cueing … I’m saying, “All join hands and circle left” and then I sing on the phrase but those dancers would just push right into it. And I get higher than a kite because it’s going round and it’s that pulse, you know, and that was a joy because I got in eight dances in an hour and I didn’t have to teach anything, you know, I’d just say, “Right and Left Through” and they would Right and Left Through. You know that old Stepney Chain, I called that one, you know, and I called Swanee River ‘cause then they all sing.
BB – We did one the other night called Triple Duck. Have you ever done that.
CH – Oh yeah, I’ve occasionally done Triple Duck. Duck and then go on to the next. Oh yeah. I call that a figure dance. It’s a set pattern to itself. I can give you two more stories. One involves your brother and one involves Earl Johnston. But the point that was made, and I think I saw your brother do it first that I remember, it was done at a Come All Ye down at the barn, the Quonset hut, and he had all different callers and Earl was there and I was there, I had come up from Long Island, so it was a long … it was over 30 years ago. And it was an afternoon thing. He was doing a live music dance at night with the Pioneers and people were going to pay to come to that. Well, comes the last caller….. I won’t say who it is, I know who it was, and I remember what the caller did. Since there were only male callers there I will be able to say he. And I’m not tipping anything. He decides to do Wagon Wheel Spin and Travel On. Nobody does that, or were doing that then. And then he proceeded to badly teach and badly call two dances. And the crowd was like the teeth were grinding. And at this point I turned around and Al was dancing in the back and he was coming through, you know he’s always smiling, his face was dead serious, and I’m watching him, and he jumps up on the stage and he turns around with a big grin and he says, lets do one more dance before we go. Rrrrrrrrrrrrr. He puts on a record, Hurry Hurry Hurry. Well everybody knows the damn dance and he got the tempo down radiating charm and I could feel the room change because he knew that half those people would have gone home and he brought it around and he brought down the house and they screamed and they yelled and they forgot the other guy. And I saw that and I said Ah. But Ed’s telling me.
The other one was Earl Johnston some years later at the Connecticut Callers … main hall, 7 o’clock, the guy who was President of Connecticut Callers at the time was the programmer and he couldn’t call then, can’t call now, he doesn’t even live in Connecticut I don’t think but it doesn’t matter, he’s got 40 squares and he starts calling a patter call. Well he’s going ‘dive thru, pass thru, star thru’ and I was still married to my wife because this was over 20 years ago and she says, “What happened?” and I said, “We were three calls behind and were still losing ground”. Well, we got through that and the singing call ….singing call was worse and then there were two rounds, or one round and then he has another tip for his part of the half hour or whatever. But you couldn’t get in the bathroom I said, “I’ve got to go to the bathroom”. Well, everybody left. Well, some others came in, poor suckers, because they didn’t know, well he proceeds to destroy 30 sets and then all of a sudden the room is filled and Earl comes up. And remember the old Boots Randolph sound, Yakity Sax?