Kronenberger, Arnie: SIO Hall of Fame, CALLERLAB Milestone



AUGUST 29, 1996

(Bob Brundage) We’re doing another interesting interview, today with Arnie Kronenberger, in Marina Del Ray, California, the date today is August 29, 1996, and we’re enjoying a beautiful stay in beautiful southern California. Arnie, if you can get out from under the sunshade tell me what’s going on, about your previous life before square dancing, where you were born and brought up and that sort of thing.

(Arnie Kronenberger) Thank you Bob, I was born and raised in Minneapolis, I lived there for the first seventeen years of my life. We came out to California in June of 1942. My brother was out here in the Marine Corps, he’d enlisted the day after Pearl Harbor, and so my mother decided she wanted to spend the rest of her days in California so, just having graduated from high school, on June fourth I believe it was, we left June sixth to drive to California.  Which we did, and we were able to see my brother before they departed for what ultimately turned out to be the Solomon invasion, he was with the third Marine Division.  And then, I was drafted into the army from California and spent the first year in Battle Creek, Michigan, and the east coast, Philadelphia, and while I was stationed in Philadelphia I met my future wife to be, Jan, and we were married in 1943, in New Orleans. I went overseas, she went home, she was pregnant, had our child, our son, our first child, Bob, and after the war I got out of the service on December 24, 1945. And Jan joined me in California here, and we’ve been in California the rest of our lives. Jan has since passed away unfortunately and she’s been gone now for twenty-three years. She was ultimately the person who got us involved

in square dancing.  We had bought a home in west LA, Westwood, and this was just after, well, 1948; couple of years after the war was over. UCLA was canvassing the area for rooms for students etc. and we had an extra room and our second child hadn’t come along yet and we had an extra bedroom and we rented it out to a gentleman, a young kid then, by the name of Dave Shiftman (?) and Dave was a member of our church and introduced us, or suggested to Jan and myself, you know we moved into a new area and didn’t know anybody, etc. and to make new friends, there was a square dance group forming and it might be a good idea to meet kids our own age etc.

I went along with my heels dug into the ground, scratching and clawing all the way and our instructor was Bob Osgood. Bob had been involved with the group during the war, I think you can go back to Bob’s tape and get all that information.  But we ultimately joined a square dance class, which was ten dollars for six lessons, once a week, every Tuesday. And we did the six weeks and signed up for another six weeks to relearn what we learned in the first six weeks. It was very simple, square dancing then was very, very simple, easy to do.


[BB] Then this wasn’t a continuation, it was a repeat?


[AK] It was kind of a repeat, yeah, Bob stretched it out probably a little bit because there wasn’t an awful lot of material at that time. And we were relying on the old time square dancing that you find at (?), etc. So, long story short, sometime in that perion, Bob invited, had a party one night, Bob invited anybody who wanted to try calling to come on up and try. And one of the gals, Betty (?) got up and rattled one off, just great and I, that’s easy, I’ll try it. And I was very shy at the time, and still am, nevertheless, much, much shyer then than I am now, and I took a hold of that mic and it was like a snake, I couldn’t hold it still. It was shaking back and forth, I could only get every other word out and that one was missing the mic so I said right then I’d never be a caller. And in the meantime we got involved with an exhibition group that Bob had, we did some TV work, etc., Bob made a movie, and we were just enjoying having fun in square dancing. Then Jan became pregnant with our second child, and I decided then that I wouldn’t have a partner for much longer, and well, maybe calling isn’t such a bad idea. This is back in the days when nobody knew anything about calling, there were no classes, there wasn’t anything that taught calling. And with the help of Bob, Bob had Sets In Order then, and they were getting calls daily, “Where can I learn to square dance, where can I learn to square dance?” etc. And Bob would say, “We know

of a caller who’s forming a group, here’s his name, give him a call, etc.” Long story short, I lined up six squares of people who didn’t know how to square dance, charged them ten bucks in advance, collected two hundred and forty bucks and with that I paid rental on the hall, $60, paid $110 for a 25 watt Newcomb outfit, spent the rest of the money on books and records and there wasn’t an awful lot of those at the time either, and with the money left over I bought some cases of Coke for refreshment period during the six week classes. And that’s how I got started. Now this was in, we started square dancing in 1948,and I started calling in early ’49 I guess, yes early ’49, our daughter was born in ’49 so that makes sense and I really got into calling because I needed the money for one thing and secondly I wasn’t going to have a partner but I wanted to stay in square dancing. My thought was if I could get one job a week calling, they were paying $15 a night then, that’s sixty bucks a month and that’s the difference between living and existing ’cause I was making the magnificent sum of $225 a month then. The one night turned into five nights, six nights, seven nights, sometimes twice on Sundays. And little by little I learned how to call, much to the, with the help of Gilmore, Osgood, Ralph Axeheimer(?), all good friends, I relied, I liked what Ed was doing in his calling, in his style.  I had a musical background, when I was in school I played percussion and ended up playing trumpet in the band. That’s how I knew about phrasing and that type of thing and with Ed’s tutorage and one thing and another, we did an awful lot of talking together over a long period of time. I picked up what Ed was doing, they say if you can’t get Gilmore get Kronnenberger, he sounds exactly like him.

Then, after, gosh that was maybe two or three years, I heard a Joe Lewis record and I was absolutely dumbfounded anybody could be that good and that loose and yet, the style of calling, Joe’s style of calling just intrigued the heck out of me. So I started, consciously or unconsciously started incorporating some of what Joe was, his style, along with what Ed had been doing and melded the two together I guess. And in time it became a style, my style. And, at that point, probably five years into calling, I became a fairly successful caller, called for another twenty years before I retired. But it was the combination of Ed and Joe, both of whom are now gone and both of whom were dear, dear friends, Ed first of course, and Joe and I became very close, did a lot of things together. And I just enjoyed calling, why I got into calling initially, it was a hobby and I kept it as a hobby, I always had a big time job, I never relied on calling for a livelihood outside of maybe one month in that twenty five years when I was unemployed. But I always said that if it ever became a job I’d quit because I didn’t need two jobs. And it got to that point, along about 1970, 71, it was becoming less and less enthralling to go out and call a square dance any more. It was a job, I was, I found myself trying to prove myself every night that I went out or every weekend that I went out on a date somewhere in the country, wherever it might have been, and it actually stopped being fun and I made up my mind, probably in ’71 to quit, retire. I was booked for two years ahead and it took me two years to work my way through the rest of my bookings. And let’s see, my last calling job was New Years eve of ’73. Have not tried it since.  Missed the people involved in it, did not necessarily miss the activity. It became very complex, very competitive, and, actually for me the joy of it went out of the activity.


[BBl You must have been involved in movie making a little bit?


[AK] Yeah, matter of fact I still get a check, gosh, this is twenty, thirty years, I did a voiceover for Henry Mancini, he was the musical director for a picture called “The Thief Who Came To Dinner” with Ryan O’Neal I think it was, a big star in it. And I went into Warner Brothers and did a voiceover after which I still get one or two checks every year. Now the checks are only ten bucks a pop, by the time they take out taxes and one thing and another the check is only five dollars and seventy cents. Screws up my income tax every year. Prior to that I did an album, I’ve done some recording for Sets In Order for Bob, and we had a good time doing those. Then I was invited by Warner Brothers to do an album in stereo, which sounds exciting. And we went in and did, the band we had that night was, well, we did two sessions, the first night we did five singing calls and the band was just absolutely amazing. They asked me who I wanted in the band, they said your leader is going to be Ernie Felice. Well, Ernie was an accordionist, great reputation, a real musician, he said tell us who you want and we’ll get ’em for you. I knew Red Callender, or the reputation of Red Callender, and so I

said, “How about Red Callender?” No problem. So Red was out bassist, the piano player was a gentleman by the name of Paul Smith. Paul was, he always recorded with Ella Fitzgerald, Ella wouldn’t do a date without him, and I guess he did an awful lot of recording with Sinatra too. But he, Paul was a big guy, strapping guy, had a hand that would reach two octaves, or at least an octave and a half and yet his fingers were so light, you ever hear him play you’d recognize him because his style was very distinguishable. And Joe Mavis on five string banjo and I can’t remember the drummers name but the music was absolutely great. Then the next session we did was for the patter calls and I brought in Jack Carter who was then a fiddle player for me and several other callers in the area for some time and Jack was kind of an old, Jack was young but was what I called a Missouri hoe-down fiddler, couldn’t read music or anything but he could play the fiddle. Well, for the hoe-downs they had the band, Ernie Felice had arranged a hoe-down, and Jack couldn’t cut it, he didn’t know what the hell he was doing. So I went to Ernie and I said, “Look, we spent a hour messing around here already, why don’t you let Jack saw it off and you guys come in and follow in behind.” So, we did that it worked perfectly and an hour and a half later w3 had five sides. The album sold very well, I still have a couple copies of it, it’s not available any more but it was called, “Stereo Goes Square Dancing”. And it was fun. We were involved in two or three other projects that we did locally here, callers breakfast at the LA Athletic Club, and we brought in a couple of speakers, kind of a Dale Carnegie type meeting to help bring out the best in the caller, whatever, you know.  And that was successful and then we also were involved with doing two or three day sessions with UCLA for callers, again it was not necessarily teaching callers how to call but all of the other things that go into being a good leader etc, etc. And, I guess, last but not least, Bob and myself, Van Antwerp, Lee Helsel, got involved in the start of CALLERLAB. Gilmore, Bob and I, Bob, Ed, we always talked about getting a group together or forming a group of callers and there was a lot of pros and cons, as I recall Ed was not necessarily in favor of it because he thought square dancing was a folk activity and shouldn’t be, should be left at that, not, you know, try and organize it and all that good stuff. And we agreed along that line but it finally got to the point where we thought a group could do a lot of good. While CALLERLAB has not done exactly everything we thought it could do, it has, I think worked well. It was started on a thirty-five cent stamp (?) practically and the first meeting was held at Asilomar with eleven callers, Gilmore, Lewis, myself, Bob, Page, I’ve got pictures of that group, and I think Lane was there, and I think Flip was there.


[BB] Van Antwerp?


[AK] Van was there and Helsel was there. But, Bob and Van and Lee and I did most of the ground work up to that point. That was out first meeting in the second year and we doubled the number, I think there were twenty-five or six callers who came to that. And, from that point I think we established the first CALLERLAB, which was in 1974, annual meeting. It has taken off, it’s become a big, international group now. Done a lot of good things. I have not been in touch with it for, I retired in 1973, the end of ’73, I haven’t paid much atrtention to it after that. I have been to two or three of the meetings, one back in Philadelphia when presented me with the Milestone Award and the other one was in Vegas, they’re having the next one out here so, God willing, I’m still around I’ll take that one in.


(BB] Yeah, I’m going to try to make that one too, even though I’m not a member.


[AK] Shame on you!


[BB] Yeah. But I want to pursue this interview thing and I’m sure there’ll be a passel of them there. But were you, you must have been at the Diamond Jubilee?


(AK] Yeah, that was 1952 I believe.


(BB] I believe so, yes.


[AK] We had about, crowd estimated, about fifteen thousand dancers and about thirty-five thousand spectators. It was done in Santa Monica at, we blocked off, I say we, four blocks of Wilshire going east and west we blocked off, so the callers stand was at the apex of Ocean Blvd., I think it was Ocean Blvd and Wilshire. So as you’re standing there you’re looking down four blocks of Wilshire Blvd and a block either way on Ocean Park or Ocean Blvd and it was jammed, it was packed, I mean the clubs hired busses to bring them in, and the police were, they had more police than they thought would be needed for crowd control. And everything was so orderly that half way through the night the police force was down to half dozen, something like that. It was quite a sight. Pappy came in for it, acted as MC, Master of Ceremony and it was an exciting time. I’ve never seen that many dancers in one spot before or since and from what I understand it’s hard to get together a half dozen squares now.


[BB] Yeah. And any over seas trips?


[AK] No, no, I didn’t call outside of the States. I called in all forty-eight of the contiguous states over a period of time and we did a lot of festivals. I started touring back around ’54. ’55, somewhere in there, ’54 actually, ‘cause I did, we did do Canada. I did the 75th anniversary for the province of Alberta and we based out of Edmonton and we did twenty-one nights and twenty-three days, two days off.  Jan went with me and we had a ball. They gave us a government car to drive, we drove something like three thousand or thirty-five hundred miles within the province and then we flew up to Peace River and Grande Prairie in the north, that’s where the sun never set. This was in June, ’54 I believe it was, and that was exciting, it was different. We visited little towns, my gosh if you got a mile off the main drag you were driving in gravel and another mile you were driving just on dirt.  Trying to find some of these little places was something else, and then I remember we, St Paul which I believe is due East of Edmonton, is a Russian/French community and you couldn’t call a mixer of any type because you couldn’t mix the Russians into the French.  So the Russian population sat on one side of the hall and the French population sat on the other side of the hall. And never did the twains meet, I mean you couldn’t do a one night stand mixer type of thing, you know. So that was different. It presented a little different challenge but it was fun. The other thing that, the NBC called, I’ll have to get the dates on this now, they’re out in the valley, still are. They called me and wanted to know if I would do a job for them on the old Dave Garroway Sunday morning show. I said doing what and they said, “Well, we’ve got four helicopters who have a Square Dance, quote unquote, routine, we want you to call to them.” Even though I was in touch with the commander of the group, there were four Bell they were an ice breaker(?) reconnaissance group or something like that. They worked in Alaska most of the time. In the spring, I think it was probably in March, and I don’t recall the year. Anyhow, I stood on the roof of one of the NBC buildings and they were right at that level, working at that level off the ground which was maybe thirty feet off the ground. And they would move in unison to the left, circle left, circle right, heads in, out, sides in, out, etc. etc. They gave me the routine and I put a call to It. And the end of it was they would peel off, out over the parking lot and come back straight in to the camera. Well the camera was looking, I was standing in front of the camera, looking over my shoulder and on the practice thing they did that and they came in and they were probably thirty feet over my head, something like that. The day we did it, the Sunday morning we did it, those suckers after the routine was over and they peeled off to come back in to the camera, they came back in to the camera about five feet over my head. At which point I was flat on the deck. The cameraman, bless his heart, he had to stand there and take it. But those guys came as close as they could come and it was exciting. It was different and it was fun. And, it goes into my book of memoirs I guess.


[BB] I guess. You mentioned Sets In Order recording, did you record for anybody else?


[AK] Just Warner Brothers, just the one album for Warner Brothers. I have made, I don’t know, five or six albums for Bob, and I made a dozen or so singles. I used to be the, act as the recording head when we were recording other callers. I forget some of the callers, Jim York recorded for Bob, sets In Order, Helsel did, John Brewster because he was with Windsor. Van did, anyhow, I helped record these guys. And I think one of the best singles I ever had, and we used to use Jack Haws (?) and Linnette Brasille for live music, we would have a four piece orchestra there, bass and fiddle, piano and banjo. And one time the caller was leaving and getting there and we were eating up studio time so, I had the band come in and get together and I said I’ll try and record something without dancers, the dancers hadn’t arrived either. And so we did two sides, and God, we did, you know, just called, we didn’t do a retake or anything else. When the dancers got there we put the tape on and they dance to it and it was the best single album, or single record rather I think I ever made.  The timing was fantastic, just kind of into phrase and it worked very, very well. I was real proud of that one.


BB:  Couldn’t very well call on phrase to the helicopters.


No, no, I had to go by their movement pretty much but it worked very, very well, these guys were good. Matter of fact, after it was over uh, the Commander, and he was a Commander, took me for a ride, this little Bell helicopter, first time I’d ever been in a small helicopter, and he turned that helicopter every way but loose, I mean he did everything that little thing could do. He was a helluva pilot and that was really exciting. I mean he did dives and twirls and spins.


[BB] As I did back in the old days. What about one night stands, did you do a lot of them?


I did initially, obviously, that was my learning curve, my time, at the time of course if you were going to have a back yard party or a patio party it was usually going to be a square dance party. And, you were hired to do a one night stand, whatever. I taught, in my early days of calling, Bob and I taught at Beverly Hills High School when square dancing was a fad, evidently Beverly Hills Adult Education program, they got enough requests to teach square dancing, Bob and I were hired to do it. Bob was hired initially to do the job, but there was such a great response that they needed someone else and,  Bob asked me if I would come with him, you know, I worked too, well we did. And we worked out, gosh, I was there probably three years, somewhere between three and four years, teaching every Friday night at Beverly Hills High School. Bob stayed on for another year or so after I left. Quite frankly, by then the demand had diminished but we ran full house, which was about thirty squares. Two years at least before it started to slack off.


[BB] In each gym?


[AK] Yeah, we had two gyms, boy’s gym and the girl’s gym and they were right next door to each other, and Bob had a full house and I had a full house. When we finished, I think we were set up then for ten weeks of lessons and then we would go, anyone who wanted to continue we would combine them into what we called an intermediate class and one or the other of us would take on that and the other would take on the new people, beginning dancers. And that went on for, what’d I say, three or four years. Out of that group, out of those classes, I met a gentleman and his wife by the name of Jean and Rightly Perry.  And we became very good friends socially.  Let’s see, we started at Beverly Hills High School about ’51, ’52, and in 1954 Rightly asked me to come to work for him. I was than working for Bob at Sets In Order. So, I asked Rightly, what do you want me to do? I had been an accountant, used to that end of things. He said, “Selling.” I said you’re out of your Godammed mind. Bob said sure. I went with them, started July first, ’54 and I’m on my forty second year now, the business that I’m in. Been in business for forty-two years. Rightly and Jean both passed away but square dancing in effect was responsible my being forty-two years in my current job. I’ve been with two firms, one with, the first twenty-five years, twenty-four and a half with Rightly’s company and then I left there to join the firm I’m with now and I’ve been with this firm October will be eighteen years. So it’s, you know, I really can’t say I’ve jumped around a lot.


[BB] The, just for a second, getting back to one night stands, I wanted to ask you in there, we lost the track, somehow I’ve, any of these one night stands with any of the movie stars?


Well, again, out of the first, out of my very first class, that I charged ten dollars a lesson for six weeks, there was a couple in it, he was a corporate attorney and they wanted to form a group of their own to dance at their home which was in Bellaire. And  so we did that and out of that experience I think that, Lee’s living in Formosa (?) beach, something like that, Lee Helsel, and Lee was transferred up to Sacramento, he eventually became head of the California State Mental Health program. And when Lee left he called me and asked me if I wanted to take over this group that he had. And I said sure, what ever, what is it, and he said, “well, they’re just Hollywood people that like to get together now and then and square dance.” So I said sure. So I called for this group for about five years I guess, something like that. We danced, let’s see, we danced once a month I think and every night was kinda like a one night stand because none of them became what I would call, even back then proficient dancers but it was a matter, it was a way for them to get together and we danced in their homes, right in their homes. We had, I met Charlton Heston for the first time when he was fresh out of North Western University, he came to the group and his wife then was carrying their first child.  Milburn Stone was in the group, who was “Doc” on Gun Smoke.  Jim Arness, who was Matt, Jim and I graduated from high school together. James K. Arness, and he was the tall, gangly kid that you could see in the hallway from one end of the building to the other because he was so tall and skinny although he filled out very nicely. Well, Jim and I graduated together, in West High in Minneapolis. Jean Cagney, Jimmies brother, sister, pardon me, we had a lot of writers and directors, producers, Jean B. (?) was in my group, gosh, one of the one, I worked with this group for a period of time, it was, it broke up because of the communist scare in Hollywood. And it kinda split down the middle, they just, you know, they took sides. One of the one night stands that you asked about did I ever do one night stands, I was invited to do a birthday party for the daughter of Vladimir Horowitz and we danced at Edna Best’s home that night. And the party was for the daughter who was I think turning sixteen or something like that and she had all her young friends. Well, along with all of her young friends was practically the whole English colony of Hollywood. Reginald Gardner, I can’t think of them all, but this particular night uh, Vivian Leigh and Olivia


[BB] Lawrence Olivia?


[AK] were there. He was here doing Streetcar Named Desire or she was doing Streetcar Named Desire, anyhow they were both in Hollywood at the same time dong different pictures. And during the evening as I was calling Olivia would be watching and he was intrigued, it kind of unnerved me but nevertheless it was also interesting. He asked me when dinner was served and believe me I was not supposed to be at the dinner but he said, “Come and sit next to me at the dinner table, I want to talk to you some more”.  So I sat between Olivia and Vivian Leigh at dinner, ticked off Edna Best no end!  I was a hired hand, not supposed to be there.  But I was there at Olivia’s behest and there wasn’t anything she could do about it.  I was caught between a rock and a hard place and I guess so was she. But that was, we had a nice talk, he wanted to know about. my breathing and about my phrasing, how I would do this and how I did that and it was interesting as all get out.


[BB] Yeah, that’s certainly unique, yeah.


[AK] So I did have a (?) with Leigh and Olivia one night.


[BB] There you go. The pinnacle of your career!


[AK] Yeah. Well, it was an interesting time. I fairly enjoyed twenty-three of the twenty-five years. The last two years I was able to maintain enthusiasm and all that good stuff, but I had made up my mind that I wanted out and it got to be a job. It wasn’t fun anymore.


[BB] I wanted to ask you about the beautiful artwork you have around here. Before we get into that I know one of your prize possessions came from Chuck Jones and you were also affiliated with him as it relates to square dancing.


[AK] Well, Chuck belonged to one of my groups out of the first Asilomar, which was 1952 I believe, came a group of people who had really met for the first time, Chuck and Dotty, couple by the name of Don and Ilene Harter, and there were maybe ten couples of us that that got together at the Harter’s one night after Asilomar, to form a group. And the group, I named the group, “Rinky Dinks” and it was my home club. And they lasted for, oh, twenty years. Right up to the time I quit they were


[BB] They danced at the Sets In Order hall?


[AK] We danced, well we danced at several places, but we ended up, ultimately, we ended up dancing at the Sets In Order hall. We have been at the school playground hall for I think a couple of years. I think we danced two or three places other than the Sets In Order Hall but we were at Sets In Order for most of the time.


[BB] Right. But I think this fine collection you have of Chuck’s caricatures, how did you


[AK] Well, actually, I don’t know if you, upstairs I have four more of Chuck’s paintings, and or drawings. Chuck used to, when we were at Asilomar, Chuck would always take an afternoon, most anytime, get together with kids. And he would draw for them. I don’t know of the kids still got ’em, I know my daughter still has two or three of the drawings that Chuck gave her.  They’re worth a lot of money.  But, if they hung onto them?  Chuck has become, I just heard this, he was voted one of the ten best directors ever in Hollywood and for an animator and cartoonist who joined the ranks of Spielberg and whoever else is included is quite an honor and Chuck has been honored. He got an Oscar at the last Oscar presentation. I went to London on vacation one time and Chuck has decorated the wall over there at the museum, the movie museum, and gosh, it’s fifty feet long and twenty feet high and he decorated the wall with his characters, the Roadrunner, and all that. It’s interesting, it’s a cinematic museum but he has done a lot of stuff. But he was a joy and Dotty was a joy, they were always the sparkle of the group and we had a great time with them. And what we treasure, that you’re referring to, is a Christmas card that Chuck sent which is, actually it’s a cel of all his characters in cowboy drag at a quote unquote saloon type thing and it was a Christmas card that Chuck sent to some of his friends.


[BB] It’s a beautiful piece. Well, I think we’re getting down to the end of this interview. I wonder if you’d just kind of give us an overview of the picture of square dancing as you see it, you’ve had a little different experience than many I’ve talked to, so what do you think about where we’ve been, where we are and where we’re going. Course you’re no longer affiliated.


[AK] Well, as I say I haven’t really been in touch with it, I still, I’m a gold card , personal member of CALLERLAB and as such I’m a lifetime member and get all their mailings and one thing and another, I still have a vote but I don’t vote because I don’t know the people involved now. Ah, where we were was a lot more fun than where we, or where they are now as far as I can tell. Even where we were initially was a lot more fun than it was when I quit twenty-five years ago. So, it’s from what I understand, it’s tougher to get a group together. When I learned to square dance and when I was teaching it was six weeks, ten weeks, twelve weeks, and you were out doing club dancing. Now, unless you go thirty weeks or forty-five weeks or whatever the period of time is, it’s too long a period to learn how to square dance and become proficient at it. Gosh, when I started we used to have, we had the whole city hall, council of Beverly Hills, etc. in our class, doctors, lawyers, could give up a night a week for six weeks or whatever it was to learn how to square dance because it wasn’t that difficult. Now they don’t have the time. If they know it’s going to take them a year to even become partly proficient in dancing, they’re going to say, “Screw it, you· know I don’t have that much time to do it.” Back then when we were ·teaching if you missed a night you could still pick up the next time around, but now, if you miss a night, man, you’re setting yourself back two or three weeks or something.


[BB] Right, there are four or five basics.


[AK] Yeah, whatever. And I don’t know all of the programs, I haven’t paid any attention, the A group and the B group or whatever it is CALLERLAB has established as a teaching basic basis. I think we have made it, they have made it, I helped make it too complicated. They took it out of the realm of an activity you could easily learn into an activity that required longer time than people could afford to give.


[BB] So you feel that those of us realized the situation all along and were not able to stop the tide, do you think there’s any way we can resurrect any sort of a stable activity in the future?


[AK] The only thing to do is, our business, my business that I’m in is a similar situation. And the only way to correct that one of mine, is to just go, start your own little group and take it to the point of enjoyment without making it complex. Now, it they start going out trying to dance around they come back, now this dancers do, they did it to me, they do it to all callers, “so and so did this the other night, how come we don’t know that?”, or how come you haven’t given us that.  And it’s a hard place to be in as far as the caller is concerned. You’re trying to keep your dancers happy and it’s kind of damned if you do and damned if you don’t situation. I don’t know, obviously, what the answers are. I probably tried to drag my feet as much as I could without calling high level quote unquote square dancing. I was never very good at it and if I had tried I would have fallen flat on my face because it is different from what I would want to do. But I have no idea, as I say I’ve been so removed from it.


BB] Yeah. Well Arnie, I want to thank you very much. Number one, I want to thank you for your hospitality and thank you for dinner last night, and I’m going to be on my way shortly , talk to some other people on my way back to Albuquerque, but thank you so much for taking the time and having me in.


[AK] My pleasure, Bob, good to see you again.


[BB] Thank you, appreciate it.

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