EDDIE AND AUDREY PALMQUIST INTERVIEW
Bob Brundage: Okay, well, this is Bob Brundage again, uh, it’s been some time since we’ve made any last recordings, and today we traveled out to, uh, California. We’re in Laguna Hills in a very delightful community called, uh, Leisure World. And we’re talking to Eddie and Audrey Palmquist who are, uh, recipients of the Silver Halo Award, and we want to find out. We’ve had a very pleasant conversation so far talking about all kinds of different things, and it’s interesting how you two ever got together, so let’s start with you Eddie and tell us about where you were born and brought up. I think you said Salt Lake City.
Eddie Palmquist: Yes. I was born and brought up in Salt Lake until I was 15 and then I drove my family out here to California, and we were established here.
Audrey Palmquist: Well I think, Eddie, you should say that you did actually drive your family.
BB: There you go.
AP: And how many were in the family that you drove.
BB: Oh.
EP: Yes. There were, well, I can’t, I don’t have to name all, but we . . .
AP: How many in the car, approximately.
EP: Uh, we had, uh, oh, let’s see . . .
BB: Laughter.
EP: One, two, three, four five, six, seven, eight, about 9 . . .
BB: Oh, wow.
EP: Nine packed in this car . . .
BB: Yeah.
EP: And came to California, and we camped along the way. And, uh, we had quite a trip. It took us 3 months.
BB: Is that so.
EP: And we were stuck in the desert with a broken down car.
BB: Uh.
EP: And anyway, we arrived in California (clock chimes) and, uh, my life was sort of uneventful for a while. I finally got married, and my wife and I were ballroom dancers and, uh, after a few years, she became kind of ill, and it was suggested to us by our doctor that we square dance. That would be the thing she needed which we did. We became avid square and round dancers dancing every night in the week. And we loved to dance, and we had people – we started to work with Ivin Louder who was a caller and a round dance teacher. And he ran an exhibition group. He started one which he wanted to go out to square dances and show people what round dancing was like.
BB: Good.
EP: And, uh, he asked us to come and join him, and we did. And he was going out that Saturday night to a dance and, uh, show this group off, and I said, you’re not really going to let them look – dance the way they look.
BB: Laughter.
EP: He said, what’s the matter. And I said, they’re terrible.
BB: Laughter.
EP: He said, well, what can we do? I said, we teach them how to dance. So that got me involved with this group. So for 5 years, I worked with them, and I – after a short time wrote all their choreography and taught them the dances on 1 week, and Ivin taught his round dancing on the second week.
BB: Yeah.
AP: And what was this group called.
EP: And that group was called the Tangoaires.
AP: All right.
BB: (. . .)
EP: And they were noted because we were doing Latins. Everything I taught them was Latins, and they wanted to show that because that was different than they were dancing. They weren’t dancing any Latins in round dancing.
BB: Right.
EP: And then people started pressing me, why don’t you start a round dance class and teach some of these Latins.
BB: Good.
EP: And my wife and I said, no, we love to dance too much. We’re working with this exhibition group, that’s all we want to do. And after 5 years, this exhibition group, uh, faded out of the picture, uh, due to many reasons, and, uh, the dancers said, well, now you’ve got a free night.
BB: Laughter.
EP: You could teach us.
BB: Right.
EP: And we said, no, we don’t want to teach dancing, and besides, I wouldn’t teach a class unless I had 25 couples. So, a short time later, which is early 1960, why one couple came to us and said, we have 25 couples signed up and paid for . . .
BB: Laughter.
EP: We have a beautiful ballroom in Glendale. We’re going to be there Tuesday night, and we expect you to be there to teach us.
BB: Laughter.
EP: So that’s how my career started in round dancing.
BB: There you go.
EP: And, uh, uh, my wife died in 1964 in April of a heart attack, and, uh, I was going to give up all my dancing but my sister-in-law, who was a nun in the order of St. Joseph, she said, you’ve got to keep up this teaching. The people need you and you need the people.
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: So she forced me back into the classes which, uh, and my sister jumped in and became my partner. In 1964, the square dance convention was in Long Beach . . .
AP: 1966 wasn’t it?
EP: No, ’64, and, uh, my sister and I attended and, uh, local teachers were not allowed to teach at the convention. And, uh, but Pete, Peter mentioned Texas was supposed to do a clinic on basics of Argentine Tango.
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: And the day before, he had a heart, he had a heart murmur, and he felt he shouldn’t go on. And Hal Chambers, who was in charge of the clinics, came to me and he said, Eddie, we’re in a bind. You’re the only person that can jump in and do this. Will you do it. So I said, yes. I went out to a record store and bought a Tango record.
BB: Laughter.
EP: And the next day I taught basic Tango and who would be on the – the moderator on the stage but Audrey Van Sycle
AP: Audrey Van – oh, Audrey Van (. . .), you’re right
EP: Yeah.
AP: I didn’t even know my married name.
BB: Laughter.
EP: Laughter. And, uh, she was very impressed with the, uh, clinic that I produced and my knowledge of the Latin, and she came down asking me – asked me if I would come to Canada and do a likewise clinic on Tango, which my sister and I agreed to do. And that was my first contact with Audrey.
BB: Well, that brings us up to date how you two met. Now let’s look at Audrey’s side of the story now. So let’s go back to (. . .)
AP: We’ll go back to, uh, Hamilton, Ontario . . .
BB: Hamilton, Ontario, okay.
AP: In Canada.
BB: Right.
AP: And, uh, first of all we have to realize I was brought up in a home where no dancing was allowed.
BB: Okay.
AP: So I had no contact with dancing.
BB: Right.
AP: But I was a school teacher.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: I just – I think I had taught just 1 year, and at that time, you taught a year but only was paid for 10 months . . .
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: So we had to find something to do in the 2 months . . .
BB: Right.
AP: When we weren’t teaching. And the idea at that time was well it would be a good thing to go out and work in a school playground for the summer months. But they had it so that you needed to take a winter course at the YMCA before you could be eligible to teach in the playgrounds.
BB: Okay.
AP: And this I took. And it was at, uh, the YMCA in Hamilton, and Paul and (. . .) ran it, and it was – it covered all the various aspects of recreation, play party games . . .
BB: Right.
AP: Ice breakers . . .
BB: Right.
AP: Relays . . .
BB: Yeah.
AP: Quadrilles . . .
BB: Uh, huh.
AP: Folk dancing . . .
BB: Yeah.
AP: And circle dancing.
BB: Right.
AP: I was absolutely enthralled to get all these activities. And it so happened that, uh, my first husband, Van Van Sickle also attended and was sort of a, he was an assistant.
BB: Okay.
AP: Helping the Suedemeyers, I think their names were.
BB: Oh, I remember the Suedemeyers.
AP: Yes. Well, that’s who it was that was running the course.
BB: I’ll be darned.
AP: And, uh, so of course I took it and then did my playground work. But I became so enthralled with it all that I went along and planned and worked on play party games in the churches, and that, of course, was how we got the dancing into the churches . . .
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: Through these, I think, once a week party games.
BB: Right.
AP: And that, uh, I kept doing that and eventually it – Van and I got married, and we got into, uh, square dancing, primarily square dancing.
BB: Right.
AP: And then McMaster University wanted us to do a course there. And, uh, we’d always been – had the idea well you need to go and learn something before you go and do something else.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: So we went off to Buckeye Institute.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: And I think it was a 5-day, uh, institute that they ran. And it covered all the various aspects of folk dancing, and singing, and everything attached it.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: Then we came back and did the course. And then eventually why, we got more involved in square dancing and then Harold Hartin, who lived in Toronto, why, he, I don’t know how we met him, but he was going to organize all the callers together and have – form the Toronto and District Square Dance Association.
BB: Okay.
AP: And we were charter members of that organization.
BB: Right.
AP: And from that, we eventually moved into Toronto and, uh, helped to organize Cross Trails Square Dance Club where we brought in all the various callers, including Al Brundage and likely Bob Brundage, too.
BB: Right.
AP: And, uh, and then they, of course, did a, we did a two-and-two program and from that we got into forming a round dance club along with Marg Huff and then the first club I think, uh, I called Carousels and then we also had, um, Style Around. I ran the two clubs . . .
BB: Right.
AP: In Toronto. And I also got interested in, uh, oh, getting groups together to make trips. And of course we went to Chicago along with Harold Hartin and had a square dance, uh, a square, and we put on an exhibition, and, uh, went to Florida to the various Nationals. And we traveled to all the various – we went to Roundacade, Danceacade, and all the – whatever was possible.
BB: Okay
AP: Um, we got this group together to go to the National in Long Beach, and we had two plane loads. Uh, they met in one – one part went out of Niagara Falls, the other out of Chicago. We all got together and, uh, danced in, um, Long Beach, and it was at that time I was moderator for the Latin clinic where Eddie Palmquist was teaching how to do a Tango, and that was where I met Eddie, and of course, as we know, we eventually – Eddie can carry on with the story from here.
BB: Well, let me, let me interrupt you just a second before we continue. I wanted to go back to your statement about your people were – you were not allowed, uh, to dance in the churches there in Hamilton and through the use of play party games. I would like people that will be listening to this tape some time in the future to understand that, uh, if there was not a musical accompaniment, then you were – people were allowed to sing and participate in hand clapping and things like that in order to perform these figures which eventually, actually was dancing in a lot of ways, but they didn’t call it dancing as long as you didn’t have a band playing or a record playing. Is that about right?
AP: Well, I’m not – that is not exactly so.
BB: Exactly. Okay.
AP: In some of the churches there wasn’t dancing.
BB: Yeah.
AP: And it so happened that the domination that my parents were . . .
BB: Yeah.
AP: Attached to, there was no dancing. Uh, I’m not sure – we did have records when we did . . .
BB: Okay.
AP: Uh, the circle games.
BB: Yeah.
AP: And the square dancing. We did have records.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: So there was music.
BB: All right.
AP: And, but because they called it a party game and there – it was a mixed program . . .
BB: Right.
AP: Then I think that’s why the church allowed that sort of thing.
BB: Okay.
AP: In the churches that we went to.
BB: Okay. Good. Well, I wanted to straighten that out.
AP: Yeah.
BB: Very good. All right, so now you’ve met, and, uh, I understand then you went to, uh, up to Canada to put on the Tango, uh, Clinic.
AP: And it was Tango Adios that you taught.
EP: Did I teach a dance then?
AP: Oh, yeah, you taught a dance at the, uh, at the Long Beach . . .
EP: Oh.
AP: And I danced, I danced at night Tango Adios with you.
EP: Okay. All right.
BB: There you go. Laughter.
EP: Okay. So I did. Anyway, Tango Adios was the first Latin dance, Tango, that was generally accepted in the round dance field throughout the United States and Canada.
BB: Okay.
AP: And, uh, so, uh, Audrey had me back to Canada to do the same workshop. She had me back later a couple of times to do, uh, clinics on International Waltz.
BB: Okay.
EP: And, uh, some of the International figures and, uh, then, uh, she was partly interested in my work, and she had been told that, that, uh, my dancers were grotesque dancers, and I was ruining round dancing.
BB: Laughter.
EP: So, uh, she had in her job as executive secretary of Home and School had to travel to, uh . . .
AP: Vancouver.
EP: Vancouver for an annual meeting, and when she was that close, she, uh, wrote and asked if she could come and visit. She wanted to go to my clubs. And, uh, . . .
AP: I wanted to check him out for myself.
EP: Yes. She wanted to be . . .
BB: Laughter.
EP: sure whether she was getting involved with something she shouldn’t. And so, uh, also that was the time the state conventions, square dance convention was on, and we were going, so we invited her to come and go to the state convention and also to visit my clubs which she did.
AP: And I actually, uh, I traveled by train to, wherever you get off here, Santa Ana . . .
EP: Santa Ana.
AP: Santa Ana. And I had a brother living here, and I also visited with, uh, Eddie’s sister. And then after I’d gone to the – saw your club -saw Eddie’s clubs, and of course, I was very impressed again. A very good club. And then I took the train all the way up the coast, up to Vancouver, and attended my meeting that I was Executive Secretary for and then took the train back across Canada.
BB: Okay.
AP: So, it made a very nice vacation.
BB: Right.
EP: So, uh, anyway, uh, Audrey and I got to know us over these few months fairly well, and, uh, my sister who was a wonderful dancer and worked with me, but she had expressed the idea when she took up – be my partner – that it would be until I would find a suitable partner.
BB: Okay.
EP: And, uh, I ran a garage – automotive garage business, (clock chimes) and Sally was my secretary, and, uh, I went in the office 1 day, and she said, did you know, she said, Audrey would be a perfect partner for you. She said, why don’t you write her and ask her if she’ll come and be your partner. And I said, you’re crazy. I said, she’s the top leader in Canada, and you think she’s going to leave Canada and come to California on a wild goose chase to be my partner. She said, well, you never know if you don’t ask.
BB: Right.
EP: So I got up enough nerve and wrote Audrey, and she wrote back and agreed that she would come. So that’s how we came to be partners.
AP: So eventually in 19 . . .
EP: So in 1966, she came to California. In 1968, we were married, and so we’ve had a wonderful life ever since that time.
BB: Right.
EP: And a very successful career. She was very good for me, because she is a tremendous organizer. We started our Palm Springs and ran it for 23 years and . . .
AP: And what is our Palm Springs.
EP: Palm Springs . . .
AP: People won’t know unless you tell them.
BB: Yeah.
EP: Weekend. There were no weekends in California at that time. Frank Hamilton had closed out his weekend in Bakersfield and when Audrey got here, she said, it’s disgraceful we don’t even have a weekend here. Why don’t we start one. And I was kind of flabbergasted, and I didn’t know. And she says, we can do it. So we hunted around, and she says, what’s wrong with Palm Springs. Canadians love Palm Springs. So we went out there, and we made a deal with the big hotel there, and we started our Palm Springs.
AP: Our first one, it was, uh, and it, and by this time, we were running clubs of every level. Uh, we had beginner clubs and then easy, intermediate, and advanced clubs. And so we actually ran the weekend so we could bring all our own dancers . . .
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: Together . . .
BB: Right.
AP: For a whole weekend in a very nice location and a very nice facility. And then, of course, why we had both been traveling up to this time, and, uh, we sent out flyers, did the usual thing, and it – in order to get the ballroom for the dancing, we had to occupy 100 rooms.
BB: Wow.
AP: And in the 27 years . . .
EP: Twenty-three years.
AP: Twenty-three years that we ourselves were running the weekend, we never had less than 100 couples . . .
BB: There you go.
AP: Attend our Palm Springs …
BB: Wow.
AP: Weekend.
EP: It was as high as 150 couples.
AP: Yeah.
BB: Is that right.
EP: Yeah.
BB: What was the name of that hotel?
EP: It was the Riveria.
AP: Riveria.
BB: Riveria, okay.
AP: It has been, uh, changed hands a couple – I think it is the Riveria again now.
EP: Yeah, yeah. And it was a very great facility that had ample wings of rooms, and they could put us all in one wing, and there were two wings, and it, uh, just made a wonderful weekend.
BB: I can imagine.
AP: It was a convention hotel.
BB: Right.
AP: So there was a large . . .
EP: Yes.
AP: Separate building . . .
BB: Right.
AP: Where you could have dancing.
BB: Right.
AP: But speaking of wings, perhaps you should tell them about how, you know, we asked that they put us all in the same area.
BB: Yeah.
AP: You know, so that because afterwards, always were after parties.
BB: Right.
AP: So this one time in particular . . .
EP: So they had us all in, and we, we had musical people, we had people who played the banjo and the saxophone, and we’d get together and we’d have sing – song fests, you know . . .
BB: Right.
EP: And they’d play, and one time the security guard came down and said, you’re going to have to quiet it down. We’re getting some complaints.
BB: Laughter.
EP: And we said, how can that be. We’re in this wing all by ourselves. He said, it’s three wings over
BB: Laughter.
EP: They’re complaining.
BB: Okay. Oh, that’s delightful. Now these were strictly round dancing though, there was no square dancing.
EP: Uh, we used to at our, uh, for many years, uh, we had a square dance caller come and call a tip at Palm Springs . . .
BB: I see, okay.
EP: In the middle.
BB: Yeah.
AP: In the evening.
BB: In the evening.
EP: In the evening.
AP: In the evening.
EP: In the evening program.
BB: Yeah.
EP: We had a tip. And, uh, I don’t know why but eventually, uh, . . .
AP: Well, people got more interested, more and more round dancers came . . .
BB: Right.
AP: That weren’t square dancing.
BB: Right.
AP: And so the emphasis then went more on round dancing, and we no longer had any square dancing.
BB: Do you remember any of the callers that you (. . .)
EP: Well, no, do you remember?
AP: I can’t think of who we, who we brought in.
BB: They were probably local . . .
AP: Local people.
BB: Probably local.
EP: It was good local callers.
AP: (. . .) and didn’t Norm (. . .) also call. He was a caller.
EP: Yeah, I think he did.
AP: Yes.
EP: But otherwise we had, uh, known callers in the area.
AP: But at first, uh, because we were – we had dancers of every level, then we had, uh, that we used two rooms because this . . .
BB: Right.
AP: Convention center . . .
BB: Sure.
AP: We could divide it. And so we taught rounds, uh, both the easy intermediate . . .
BB: Yeah.
AP: And then the little stronger rounds.
BB: Right.
AP: So that we had two and three teachers.
BB: Right.
EP: Yeah. And we wanted a square dance call that anybody that square danced could do.
BB: Yeah. And this was before phase two, three, four, five, and so forth.
EP: Oh, yeah, before that came in . . .
AP: Right.
EP: They just had easy, intermediate, advanced.
BB: Right.
EP: Yes. And, uh . . .
AP: And we still think that way (. . .)
BB: I’m sure.
EP: On our, on our Tuesday class, for a long time when Audrey and I were together, we had a square dance caller who danced with us on that night. And we got the idea that so many of us, like Audrey and I, were so busy every night that we couldn’t keep up on any square dancing, and so we thought it would be a good idea if he called a tip, uh, every Tuesday night in the middle of the evening . . .
BB: Right.
EP: Just to kind of going over figures that, that we weren’t familiar with . . .
BB: Sure.
EP: So we did that for a long time.
AP: We did that for many years.
EP: Yeah. He called at every Tuesday night.
BB: There you go. So.
EP: We were always, we were always very supportive of square dancing. We always were very square dance prone, and it wasn’t until we got to teaching every night in the week, that we dropped our square dance.
BB: Right.
EP: We worked with Larry Ward for a couple of years at his B Sharps teaching the easy and intermediate rounds and cueing two rounds between each tip. So that we kept very close to, uh, square dancing.
BB: Right.
AP: Also, uh, how our changes would come about at our Palm Springs Weekend we had a questionnaire, and, uh, the people would, you know, pass comments, and I don’t believe any two years were ever identical.
BB: Hmmm.
AP: And it was always the result of suggestions made . . .
BB: Sure.
AP: By the people attending. And that would likely be the reason that we ceased doing certain things.
EP: Um, hmmm.
BB: Well, you were also, uh, involved in other festivals and so forth (. . .)
EP: Oh.
BB: Some of the other events that you took part in.
EP: We, uh, we attended, uh, the, uh . . .
AP: In 19 – before we were married, the very first clinic that was ever held at, uh, a square dance, a big National Square Dance Convention . . .
EP: International clinic.
AP: An International Clinic we did it for – when, uh . . .
EP: Don Wilson.
AP: Don Wilson was round dancing chairman . . .
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: And the, and the – it was in Philadelphia.
EP: Yeah, uh, huh.
AP: And we did . . .
EP: He asked us to come and do an International Clinic on one of the rhythms . . .
AP: Was it . . .
EP: And we did Quick Step.
BB: All right. Okay.
EP: Basic Quick Step. And we had a hall jammed full of people. And they loved it. And we just stuck with the basics, and, uh, because the minute anybody heard about international dancing, they all wanted to learn the Quick Step.
BB: Uh, huh.
EP: And that’s why we picked that.
BB: Okay.
EP: Which so happens, when they get into it, the Quick Step is the least desired dance.
BB: Laughter. Okay.
EP: And, uh, . . .
AP: And, of course, uh, Eddie casually mentioned at the beginning of this tape that he had, that he and Helen, his first wife, were – had done ballroom. Well, of course, Eddie never stopped doing ballroom.
BB: Right.
AP: And when I came, why that was one of the first things that he said I had better learn, and so I started taking ballroom lessons along with . . .
BB: I see.
AP: Eddie, and naturally, I, I knew practically nothing about, uh, International other than the little bit that may have cropped up in some of the dances that we taught. But at that time, you know, back in 1966, there really wasn’t much International in the round dance choreography. And so we started taking lessons, and, uh, Eddie persevered with me and gradually trained me so I became a fairly knowledgeable
BB: Right.
AP: In International. But, uh, that – from that – that is however how our career took off.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: Because we did choreography. Eddie primarily, in fact, did all the choreography. I just, uh . . .
BB: Yeah.
AP: I made a very good criticizer but . . .
EP: Good follower.
BB: Right.
AP: But, uh, and as the choreography developed, well more, naturally the things you knew popped up in your choreography, and so when Eddie did the choreography, he put in the figures that we had been learning, and as this got across the country, people didn’t know how to do these figures.
BB: Yeah.
AP: And they wanted someone to teach them. And that is how our career really took off because we were in the right place with the right knowledge at the right time.
BB: Yeah.
AP: And we started to travel teaching people the various figures that were in the dances.
BB: Right.
EP: The, uh, 1968 National Square Dance Council was in, uh, Washington, and, uh, Audrey and I were asked to teach, and we taught a Quick Step. And, uh, the, uh, it went over well. The time we had, and we were shortened on our time, we barely got through, but we had people . . .
AP: That was in Seattle.
EP: Seattle . . .
BB: Yeah.
EP: Seattle, Washington. And, uh, we had people stopping us in the wall, uh, the Easterdays, teach us that double reverse . . .
BB: Right.
EP: Teach us that double reverse. And so, uh, it, uh, created a lot of interest. And the Easterdays were very impressed, and they brought us back east to do the first International teach.
BB: Okay.
EP: And the clinic in Hagerstown.
BB: Right.
EP: And we went back and we stayed with Joe and Es Turner.
BB: Oh, yes. I remember Joe . . .
EP: And they said, do you mind showing us what you’re going to teach tomorrow. Well, we, we had written a beautiful waltz, but it was an easy five. So we showed it to him, and he said, I don’t want to pull, pull, pour water on your parade, but he said, the people you’re going to teach tomorrow know nothing about the type of dancing you’re teaching.
BB: Okay.
EP: And you’re going to kill them with that dance.
BB: Right.
EP: He said, I would love to have you come to Danceacade and teach that, and he said, so Audrey and I got busy and we wrote Answer Me.
BB: Okay.
EP: Down in their dance room.
BB: Uh, huh.
EP: And we wrote up the cue sheet, took it to the Easterdays the next morning, they took it to school and ran them off, so we taught Answer Me.
BB: Laughter. There you go.
EP: So that’s how Answer Me came to be.
AP: And that is one of the very first records ever pressed of Answer Me.
BB: (. . .) That’s good. This is the clock on the wall she’s pointing to. And it’s a 45 RPM record, there you go.
EP: Yeah.
AP: And it’s Answer Me.
BB: Yeah.
EP: This, uh, person was in the clock business, and he said, I wouldn’t give this record to anybody else. This is my treasure. But he said, I made a clock out of it for you, and I want you to have it.
BB: There you go.
EP: So the . . .
BB: That was very interesting. Uh, when I interviewed the Easterdays, I was impressed by the fact that they still study International today.
EP: Uh, huh.
BB: And, uh, I can recall – this might pop all of a sudden when it comes to the end of the tape so don’t worry about it. Uh, I recall back in my early round dancing days that, uh, people were always saying, well, it’s the darn International Ballroom people that are ruining round dancing.
AP: Laughter. Yes.
EP: Laughter.
BB: I remember when they came up with Basketball Turn I said, holy smokes, the whole world is coming to an end.
EP: Laughter.
BB: Now I’m sure. We’re getting influenced by these darn International people. But, uh, tell you what. We’re near the end of this tape, so, uh, why don’t I stop it, and, uh, we’ll take a breather just for a minute and start over again.
BB: Okay. So we were just talking about Answer Me, and we’re talking about many of the festivals that you’ve done. Uh, tell me about some of the other festivals that led into your getting involved in these clinics, and we’ll talk about.
EP: Well, our first, our first clinic was, uh, promoted by Ruth Jewell in, uh, Raleigh Durham. She asked us to come there and do a clinic and one teach, and she wanted to make it absolutely possibly sure that we wouldn’t come and teach several dances.
BB: Right.
EP: They mainly wanted to learn how to dance. So, uh, we went there and did a, uh, clinic on how to dance, how to hold your partner, how you should, uh, dance, and also taught them a dance that was International and taught them the figures carefully, and the clinic turned out successfully, and we went back every year for many years. And, uh, some of the people today who are top teachers in round dancing attended that first clinic, and they were, uh, Brent and Mickey Moore, and the Gosses, the Howards in Florida. And Brent and Mickey made up their mind. They said, if we can’t dance like the Palmquists, we don’t want to dance.
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: And, uh, Goss admitted he went there, thought they would be easy, and they didn’t know a thing we were doing. And that was a wide eye opener to them. We also were . . .
AP: Well, the, the Howards were there and so, uh, uh, they asked us if we would come and do a similar clinic in Florida which we did a couple of years later. Uh, and then we also did clinics 2 a year . . .
EP: And we did . . .
AP: In Nashville, Tennessee.
EP: We did that every year in Florida for many, many years. And then we, what, when we went to, uh, Indiana when we helped, uh, uh, on – start on the staff with Irv and Betty Easterday to start, uh, Roundarama in Indiana, and, uh, the Grendles from Tennessee came to us and they said, we heard you’re really good. But we came here to see if these people know what they’re talking about. If you did know what you’re talking about.
BB: Right.
EP: And so, after, after the session at Indiana, she came and said we want you in Tennessee to do clinics. And she had us there in the spring and in the fall. For many years we went there and performed clinics for them and taught dance as well. And, uh, also, uh, people who were at some of these clinics, then they wanted us to come to their town . . .
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: Like the Evans brought us into, uh, . . .
AP: Missouri.
EP: Missouri. And, uh, when we were in Florida, a couple there that were from Texas said, you know, it cost us a lot of money to come here, and we want to have you to Texas, and if nobody comes but us two couples, we won’t spend any more . . .
BB: Laughter. Okay.
EP: Money than we spend going to Florida.
BB: There you go.
EP: So we went there for several years and did clinics.
AP: Practically all the clinics that we did were annual affairs.
BB: Right.
AP: The dancers really had no where else to go unless they found a ballroom teacher which we suggested they do.
BB: Right.
AP: But if they did go to a ballroom teacher, they must make sure that they tell them they are round dancers and be explicit as to the type of thing they wanted to learn. Then they would come back the next year and carry on from where they were. And a lot of the top, uh, round dance teachers today came to our clinics at that time. But we didn’t really touch on the square dance conventions that we attended.
EP: No.
AP: Which really was before we ever did any of the annual things.
EP: Yes. Our, uh, we went to Washington, DC, at the big Square and Round Dance Festival at which we taught, uh, and, uh, not just clinics as such, but top dances and also, we, uh, cued at all the halls, square dance halls, round dance halls, uh, we had a total of over 100 rounds we had to cue on that weekend, and there were three round dance teachers, and they all had to do their share
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: Of the cueing. And you had to run from one hall to the next . . .
BB: Laughter.
EP: To keep up your . . .
BB: Right.
EP: Schedule.
BB: Yeah.
EP: And then from there, we were invited to Philadelphia at their big annual square and round dance, and we did the same thing there for many years. At Washington, we went 9 consecutive years, and then, times were getting a little hard, and they decided they wouldn’t bring anybody west of the Mississippi.
BB: Okay.
EP: And so, uh, we didn’t go back after that. Uh . . .
AP: And, you’ll notice we did all this traveling, and we had to have material for our, in particular our clinics and also the festivals because you had to teach, say, at Washington, DC, you had to teach at least two rounds. And the way to get new material, if you had – if you were able to write it, you had to write your own material.
BB: Right.
AP: And so that is one reason why we wrote so many rounds, and, uh, how many rounds have we written, Eddie, in total?
EP: Uh, well, what we counted up, and may have missed one or two, but we have 192.
BB: That’s the figure I remember you tell me, right.
EP: Uh, actually, every time we do a clinic and they wanted a teach of a dance, they’d say, we want one of your dances. And if we would do, uh, a clinic one place and teach a dance, we’d go to another place, and we felt we always had to have a new dance. Where sometimes, the people that attended the other said, I wish you’d done that other one over.
BB: Laughter.
EP: So we actually, maybe forced ourselves, to do more than we actually had to. But we always felt that we had to go with something new, and so that is why, uh, we were so prolific in, in writing so many, many dances. However, over the years, they have – many of them have proven, well, we have, uh, seven dances in the, uh, in the Roundalab Hall of Fame. In our, uh, own, we have . . .
AP: Is that Roundalab or you already said that.
EP: You already say – we have seven dances in the Hall of Fame.
BB: That’s the Universal Round Dance Council?
AP: The Universal Round Dance Council.
EP: Yeah.
BB: Okay.
EP: And, uh, in our own Round Dance Teachers Association here, we have over 20 dances at the all time classics.
BB: Okay.
EP: And so, uh, uh . . .
AP: I think it’s interesting to note, though, that we have written in every level.
BB: Right.
AP: Tips of My Fingers.
BB: Okay.
AP: Which I imagine is danced, still danced at a lot of the square dance clubs.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: And Answer Me. And I Want to Quick Step. And then, of course, right on through Lovely Lady, I Know Now, Scent of Roses . . .
EP: Autumn Nocturne
EP: And Autumn Nocturne which, of course, is one of the more difficult dances.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: So in every level we, we’ve been writing dances. And coming back into popularity is, uh, Don’t Cry for Me Argentina.
BB: Oh, yes.
AP: Which, of course, is, uh, uh, a Tango, and because of the popularity . . .
BB: Right.
AP: Of Evita right now, why it’s . . .
BB: All right. Let’s talk about the mechanics of this now. Each time you taught, you choreographed a new round dance, you had to have a piece of music. Now . . .
EP: Right.
BB: Did you select pop music or, uh, did you, uh, pick . . .
EP: Uh, well, no, some of our dances . . .
AP: Well, at first, we used the round dance labels.
EP: Yeah. We used High Hat, and we used, uh,
AP: Windsor.
EP: Windsor.
AP: And Doc Allumbaugh’s music.
EP: And, uh . . .
AP: That’s another interesting point, Eddie. How you got, uh, that band, Doc Allembaugh used that one particular band.
EP: Yeah. Uh, we, uh, knew Men Burnabe ‘cause we ballroom danced, uh, to him many times, and Doc Allembaugh was, uh, searching for more music. He had his own bands that did a certain amount, and, uh, so I suggested that he talk to Meno Burnabe and see if he couldn’t use his music because he had beautiful music.
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: And so I arranged a meeting with Meno Burnabe and Doc Allumbaugh, and, uh, he agreed to let Doc Allumbaugh use his music. And so that brought some good music into . . .
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: The round dance scene.
AP: And you used quite a lot of that music from Windsor.
EP: Yes.
AP: (. . .)
EP: Yes. Please be my Sweet and Heart and, uh, quite a number. And then we used some pop records, and, uh, we used Grenn . . .
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: We did a number of dances on Grenn. So we used a lot . . .
AP: I Want to Quick Step. Wasn’t that Grenn?
EP: That was Grenn. Yeah. We used a lot of the round dance labels, and, uh, we used – then we got, uh, actually, uh, I think it was at the Washington festival, we got involved with Dick Mason, and, uh, uh, he started in producing, uh, his ballroom records for round dancing . . .
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: And promoting them and putting them out. So we used quite a few of his records.
BB: Okay.
EP: And, uh, (clock chimes), uh, . . .
AP: And when we traveled, and we always tried to take sufficient records so the round dance teachers could buy a record if they wished to . . .
BB: Right.
AP: And so we invested a lot of money . . .
BB: Right.
AP: In records.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: And, in fact, uh, 2 or 3 years before we retired, Eddie had talked to Dick Mason, and you bought up a couple of thousand dollars worth of records.
EP: Oh, yeah. He was, he was selling out a lot of them at, uh, a big discount so I bought $1,500, $2,000 worth of records . . .
BB: Hmmm.
EP: At discount and had them on hand for dances I was going to write.
BB: There you go.
EP: So, uh, it’s, uh, it isn’t easy and, uh, when you do this, uh, you don’t really make money on the records because some of them you never . . .
BB: Right.
EP: Sell.
BB: Right.
EP: So you don’t wind up making any money . . .
BB: Right.
EP: But you, I think it’s appalling when, uh, round dance leaders will go out to a festival and teach a dance and not have records available.
BB: Hmmm.
EP: For that dance they’re teaching.
EP: Because how are the teachers going to – and they don’t like to teach it off a tape.
BB: Right.
EP: And I think that should be a standing rule. You either bring records or you don’t teach your dance.
AP: Now there’s another . . .
EP: Or have them available.
AP: Another aspect, of course. We naturally are very teacher conscience.
BB: Right.
AP: I taught school, and, uh, Eddie always found it easy to teach people. And we had our own beginners clubs. And the natural thing for us to do then was to find a way to assist other people to teach beginning clubs. And so we did write a book called, uh, Step By Step.
EP: Step By Step.
AP: Step By Step Palmquist Style.
BB: Okay.
AP: And which we produced. And, uh, in order to get a good price on the printing, naturally, we had a whole lot more printed than we ever used.
BB: Right.
AP: And so the balance of those have been turned over to Roundalab for whatever . . .
BB: Right.
AP: Use they want to make of it.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: Then the other way in which we have been published, if you wish to look at it that way, is, uh, we ran a Sunday, once-a-month clinic.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: Uh, in conjunction with our clubs for many, many long years. And, uh, Norm and Louise Puzey attended those clinics over the years. And Norm often said to Louise, it’s, it’s a shame not to have some record, somehow, of these clinics . . .
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: On record because Eddie and Audrey aren’t always going to be with us. And so after Norm died, Louise came to us and said, it was always Norm’s wish that we do something to keep your clinics alive and get some of the knowledge that you have, uh, before the people. So she had, they had, uh, worked up and organized, uh, Norm Puzey Memorial Library.
EP: Memorial Library.
BB: Okay.
AP: And from that, they, they sponsored a tape that we made, a video tape.
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: They hired a top professional that had four or five cameras when we did these two tapes. Taping them from above . . .
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: From down below, and we were showing the figures, and then in the inset, they would show the foot work. Tremendous job.
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: And they produced two waltz tapes.
AP: Well, we did the one first which was the, an introductory tape with all the, the easier figures.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: Such as, uh, an Open Telemark
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: And a Whisk, and a Weave.
BB: Yes.
AP: And, uh, then 2 or 3 years later, why we did a second tape which was the, called the advanced tape that did a Double Reverse Spin and . . .
BB: Okay.
AP: And then a Telly Spin . . .
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: And those figures. All International figures in waltz. And those tapes are still available. They’re still being – Louise is selling them.
BB: Okay.
AP: She still has them. In fact, we had a phone call 2 days ago from someone asking about the tapes. We directed . . .
EP: They’ve been sold all over the United States and in Belgium, and Germany, and . . .
AP: Japan.
EP: And Japan.
BB: Right.
AP: Canada.
EP: And so they’ve, uh, uh, one I think important thing about our relationship, uh, is that Audrey and I both recognize – I recognize even though she hadn’t had experience in International – in fact, my sister when she suggested I get Audrey, she said she’d be a good counter balance because you’re strong on Ballroom and she’s strictly Round Dancing. And, uh, it will be a counter balance for you.
BB: Right.
EP: But, anyway, when she came here, I thoroughly respected her ability, and I was proud of her ability and her accomplishments. And she was the same with mine. So that when we went out to teach, there was no conflict. Well, I’m the big I.
BB: Right.
EP: We both respected what each could do.
BB: Right.
EP: And I think we were one of the teams that were really a team.
BB: Right.
EP: When we went out to teach.
BB: Right.
EP: Either one of us could teach both parts of the dance we were teaching.
BB: Right.
EP: And, uh, the women find that so many men teachers don’t want the women to say anything.
BB: Uh, huh.
EP: Uh, but we found it so important, I – when we first got together, I was showing the man and lady’s part, whatever the figure was, I showed them. And then on a way a clinic sometime, they’d say, well could see Audrey. It looks a little different with a woman’s feet and so on, so then, she jumped in and started showing the woman’s part.
AP: That was hard work at first.
BB: I’ll bet.
AP: Because I then had to then make sure I was technically doing an open. . .
BB: Right.
AP: Telemark correctly, or Contra Check . . .
BB: Right.
AP: And so on.
EP: But anyway, it got so that, uh, we were – I was the main teacher, but we were more or less equal, and, uh, she would always give the woman’s perspective on what the figures were. And the people loved that.
AP: As time went on then, I got a mike as well as Eddie. For a while, I would just sort of speak through Eddie’s mike.
BB: Right.
AP: But then we realized it would be better if I had a floor mike as well.
BB: Right.
AP: And so we both had a floor mike. And in our own teaching clubs at home here, we used the, you know, the two mikes and that was the one thing the dancers said when we retired, this was the, the big thing they missed. Audrey, we sure miss you.
BB: Laughter. Right.
EP: Yeah. And, uh, the, uh, biggest, uh, obstacle that you have to overcome there is be sure you don’t both talk at once.
BB: Yeah. I’ll bet.
EP: You know. And when Audrey wanted to talk, she’d come up and squeeze my hand. And I’d shut up and let her talk.
BB: Right. (. . .)
EP: Because when both people talk together, the people don’t know who to listen to.
BB: Right. Right
EP: And so I think that was important in our, uh, success was – another thing that was important, we, we took lessons 2 hours a week in International style. And I had done it for years. Because there is always new twists. There’s always different things. But when Audrey and I would learn a new figure, we’d look at it and figure how hard it was for us to learn. And then we’d say, now what’s the average round dancer going to do with this.
BB: Right.
EP: And we would either modify the figure or not use it.
BB: Right.
EP: And I think that’s one thing that’s missing today. I think some teachers go in and learn competition figures . . .
BB: Right.
EP: And then they give it to the people. They may take a week learning it, and then they expect the dancers to learn it in (. . .)
AP: They’ve taken a year to learn it, not just a week.
EP: And maybe they’ll expect the dancers to learn it in a couple of sessions.
BB: Yeah.
EP: And I think that’s one mistake that they’ve got to be careful of or they’re going to spoil it.
BB: Right.
EP: And so . . .
BB: Well, this should be true of phase five and six, of course, but . . .
AP: Well, yes, which is, of course, as time went on, that’s what we primarily . . .
BB: I see.
AP: Worked in.
BB: Right.
AP: However, you must realize that when they had easy, intermediate, advanced, the dances that were advanced at that time, they are often now putting into Phase Four.
BB: Oh, yeah. Sure.
AP: So that, uh, Phase Four isn’t just an easy intermediate level any more.
BB: Right.
AP: Because they are introducing more and more harder . . .
BB: Right.
AP: Figures into your, your Phase Four.
BB: Well, that’s the level of my expertise at the moment, so . . .
EP: But, uh . . .
BB: I know what you’re talking about.
AP: Right.
EP: I’m, I’m a little bit appalled some times when I see the ratings on figures in a dance.
BB: Yeah.
EP: That are put into Phase Four. Uh, that really, and, and the fact that they mustn’t take into consideration your entrance, exit, and the figure that follows . . .
BB: Um, hmmm. Right.
EP: You know. A figure can jump from a Five to a Six if it’s put together with another figure.
BB: Right.
EP: And, uh, I think those are things that need careful attention.
BB: Well, that’s – yeah, I see what you’re talking about. Um, I had a thought a minute ago, and it escaped me, but, uh, okay, well, the recording business has been a big part of your, a big part of your success and so forth, and all of these festivals and clinics. I wonder if you would, uh, tell me a little bit – one of the questions I’ve asked most of the people I’ve interviewed off the top of my head is, uh, where do you think round dancing has been and where do you think it is now, and where do you think it might be going.
EP: Well, I think round dancing is still strong. I think that, uh, uh, they, if they aren’t careful in the Five and Six levels – sometimes they have figures in there that should be Seven and Eight.
BB: Okay.
EP: And I think that they get into too much of that. They’re going to lose a lot of dancers.
BB: Right.
EP: Because a lot of dancers begin to say, this is too much work.
BB: Right.
EP: And I think they have to be very careful. They need new stuff, but they don’t need something that’s a back- breaking . . .
BB: Right.
EP: To learn.
AP: Or mind, mind boggling.
EP: Mind boggling.
BB: Mind boggling.
AP: The same as in . . .
EP: And I . . .
AP: Square dancing.
BB: Right.
EP: And I think, I think they have to, uh, be careful even in, uh, One, Two, and Three that they don’t start crowding a Four too much with Five figures.
BB: Right. Well, isn’t it true that once you get into phase Five and Six that you’re talking about a lot of styling which is not emphasized in the lower phases.
AP: Yes.
EP: Yeah.
AP: And that’s too bad, isn’t it? I always – people used to say, uh, we want – we’ve come to you because we want to learn how – more styling. And I would reply, styling is the result of good dancing.
BB: Right.
AP: And as Eddie was just talking, I was thinking, isn’t it a shame that more round dance teachers aren’t interested in dancing perhaps a little, how will I say it, more correctly, technically.
BB: Technically.
AP: Technically correctly.
BB: Right.
AP: Because if they did, there would be styling as a natural result . . .
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: In no matter what level you were dancing. I think that you can, I think people need to dance, find their own level of dancing.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: But there are a lot of people that would perhaps be happy to stay dancing in Three and Four, if what they were dancing they had an opportunity or had someone to teach them how to do what they’re doing with a little more technique
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: Or a little more accurately.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: Or with a little more style.
BB: Um, hmmm. Well, do you feel that, uh, some teachers are so engrossed in teaching new, new routines, that they just pass over the styling?
AP: Well, now there’s two ways of looking at that. We’ve often said that people teach quickly because that’s all they know.
BB: Uh, huh.
AP: And then the more you learn, then, the more you have to share with the dancers. And then the – you’re not going to then have time to teach quite as many dancers, dances. And so I think you get more out of each dance if we didn’t try – if we tried to put more into each dance.
BB: Right. Well, we discussed earlier, before the tapes came on, it seems the problem we have in square dancing, and that is that the – it’s not the dancers who are bored, it’s the, uh, teachers, uh, the callers or the cuers . . .
AP: Yeah, I think so.
BB: And, uh, that seems to be sort of a trend.
AP: Did we ever cover that one little point with regard to patience?
BB: Not yet, no. Let me take a little break right here. (Tape stops.)
BB: Okay, so we’ve just had a delightful lunch and after our little lunch break, and thank you very much, Audrey, it was delicious.
AP: Glad to have you with us.
BB: Um, off the subject for a minute, uh, have you been involved in other hobbies at all?
EP: Not really.
BB: Don’t build . . .
AP: No, except now that, um, of course, I always made my own dresses.
BB: Okay.
AP: I, I made my own dance dresses and, uh, when – that was one of our biggest problems when we came to decide we were no longer going to teach.
BB: Yeah.
AP: And here I had a closet full of dresses.
BB: Right.
AP: And a room full of yardage.
BB: Right.
AP: So what did I do.
BB: Laughter.
AP: I – we had a dance, a garage sale just for the dancers. I sold every one of my dresses along with several other dancers that wanted to sell their dresses. And then I sold yards, and yards, and yards of . . .
BB: Of material. Isn’t that interesting.
AP: (. . .) I sold all my petticoats.
BB: There you go.
AP: And sold practically all my shoes. I kept a few because a lot of the, the, you know, your dance shoes you can use for just . . .
BB: Yes.
AP: Dress wear, and I kept those.
BB: Well, that’s interesting.
AP: But, um, it was, it was really a lot of fun because people phoned and said, now we’re going to be away that weekend . . .
BB: Yeah.
AP: Can I come down now and try them on.
BB: Laughter.
AP: And I sold some dresses, most of my dresses, before the actual day of the sale arrived.
BB: Great.
AP: One girl bought 14 dresses.
EP: Seventeen.
AP: Seventeen.
BB: Is that right. Well, that’s interesting. Okay . . .
AP: That, that was my other hobby. Now my other hobby is gardening.
BB: Okay.
AP: And, uh, I thought when we moved here, since it’s, you know, they take care of everything, and, and, uh, it’s pretty well all set up, I thought, why I won’t be getting into any gardening, but I find now, that I’ve got a couple of pots of tomatoes . . .
BB: Okay.
AP: And I planted extra rose bushes and so . . .
BB: Right.
AP: I am getting back into gardening.
BB: Well, that’s great. That’s great. Well, one of the things I wanted to ask about, uh, what your experience was with recruiting new, new dancers. Uh, as you know, the square dance field has, uh, a problem with attracting new people into square dance classes today. Uh, maybe you’ve got an idea that, uh, could help our, our square dance activity. Uh, was there any particular thing outside of word of mouth that you did to recruit.
EP: Well, you might know more than I would on that, but all I know is that for ourselves, that our dancers were the ones that advertised and brought the people to a beginners club.
BB: Okay.
EP: They were anxious to have their friends take from us.
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: And we had, uh, people that were waiting for us to start a club because they heard about our teaching . . .
BB: Yeah.
EP: And so that’s where we had good crowds. I think we had about 60 some people in one beginners class there, and I think we graduated just about the same amount. We lost two or three along the way, but we had two or three come in.
BB: Right
AP: And so, uh, uh, our theory in teaching a beginners class was that we did not teach them a round, and we explained that in our book for at least 4 weeks, wasn’t it?
AP: I don’t remember.
EP: Yeah. We just, we just talked about a waltz, how to do two steps . . .
BB: Right.
EP: How to do these things And I’d make up little amalgamations . . .
BB: Right. Right.
EP: Like a little dance . . .
BB: Yeah.
EP: Very simple and have them dance it. And so, uh, we, uh, also we were very subtle when we worked with beginners because, uh, we wanted to teach them how to stand with their partner, how to hold their partner, but we – in the beginners class, we were very careful how much said, but we always did that ourselves.
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: And people would come and say, I notice you stand close to each other when you dance.
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: Are we supposed to do that? And we said, yes. And they would learn from watching us and pretty soon they were mimicking us.
BB: Right.
EP: And so we felt that that got it over to them than if we tried to drill them.
BB: Right.
EP: Into, uh, these positions.
AP: Also, we would have a beginners class, let’s say, that lasted . . .
EP: Twenty weeks.
AP: Twenty weeks.
EP: Twenty-four weeks.
AP: Something like that. But then we would have an extension.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: That would add 10 more weeks where we would get into something a little, uh, more difficult.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: And then we had our own club to absorb those people immediately.
BB: Right.
AP: We didn’t just let them go adrift
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: So that, and we did have a progression of dance clubs ready for the dancers, and they would move from one club up to the next if they wished, and so on.
BB: Right.
AP: All the way up to the advanced or basics club.
BB: Well, that’s interesting. Have you – are you doing any line dancing or have you done any line dances per se?
EP: No, we, we . . .
BB: Too busy at your (. . .)
EP: We were on a cruise, and, uh . . .
AP: It was just getting started . . .
EP: Yeah.
AP: When we were, and we were, at that time, we were already in . . .
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: Doing phase five and Six.
BB: Yeah.
AP: So we really wouldn’t be getting into line dancing.
EP: Uh . . .
BB: You mentioned cruises, now, you were telling me during lunch that you had extensive, uh, interest, in conducting cruises.
EP: Yes. Audrey and I love to cruise. We went on, uh, 27 cruises, 24 of which we organized for the dancers, and we were the, uh, tour guides for them.
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: And we arranged everything on the ship for them from time for round dancing, and we would teach a dance on the cruise, and so we made it interesting for the people to come and want to go and still keep up their dancing. And it was interesting how many people would come down to just watch . . .
BB: Hmmm.
EP: Our groups . . .
BB: Right.
EP: Dance.
BB: Right.
EP: And so that was a good advertising for, for round dancing.
AP: The most interesting cruises, I guess, the two most interesting cruises, was the one to China . . .
BB: Uh.
AP: Uh, which was very exciting, you know, because it was one the very first large cruises that went into China, and, uh, so of course, we got the royal treatment when we went to Beijing . . .
BB: Yeah. You went by ship all the way?
AP: Well, no.
EP: No, no.
AP: We flew, flew to Hong Kong.
BB: Okay.
AP: And they went by ship . . .
BB: (. . .)
AP: Back to, uh . . .
EP: Japan.
AP: Jakobe, Japan.
BB: Um, hnmm.
AP: And we did, uh, a, a weekend, uh, 1-day, a 1-day workshop in Tokyo.
BB: I want to ask you too, along that same line, uh, the square dance callers that I’ve talked with, many of them had experience in what I call non-English speaking dancers.
EP: Um, hmmm.
BB: Did you have any experience, like Japanese people . . .
EP: Well . . .
BB: Who really are not fluent in English who still round dance?
EP: We had, uh, this round dance session in Tokyo. There was a part in our honor, but we taught a Phase Five or Phase Six waltz. And, uh, the Japanese know all of the International English names.
AP: That’s why it’s called International.
EP: And so, International dancing is recognized in, uh, 56 countries of the world.
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: So, uh, when we taught this dance, only twice did our friend, who is a Japanese round dance teacher who brought us there, uh, did he interrupt, and that’s when I said, like Five or Six. He gave them the Japanese number for the counting. Otherwise, I taught the whole dance – they danced – in an hour and 20 minutes, they danced that dance beautifully. That night, they danced it twice, and they danced it beautifully, and the Japanese really are very technique conscience, and they really study their dancing and really work hard at their dancing. They’re marvelous round dancers. They have a lot of women whose husbands won’t dance, so the women take the man’s part, and they dance with a lady, and they are marvelous leaders.
BB: Hmmm.
EP: It, it was very interesting.
BB: Hmmm.
EP: We were very impressed.
AP: As far as any other – we’d never run up against any others . . .
BB: Okay.
AP: Situations where . . .
EP: No.
AP: People have come in, you know, that couldn’t understand English.
BB: Well, in the square dance field, all the people, even though they don’t know how to speak English, know how to square dance because they’ve learned the square dance language.
AP: Sure.
EP: Right. Sure.
BB: Very interesting. Um, where was I? You came up with a comment earlier when we were not on the tape about one of the, your philosophies of teaching, and that’s the term ‘ patience’.
EP: Yes.
BB: Expound on that again for us, Eddie.
EP: Yes. We – I – every teacher I know faces this. That when you have a round dance class, you always a few sharp couples that learn fast, and, uh, want to move on, they want to go on, and, uh, then you have those that are struggling, and so, you can’t reach to the bottom of the class, but you’ve got to at least hit the middle of the class. And so we would, when we would go over another figure and you’d see a few of these people kind of sigh that are fast learners, and then I would say, you know, in this activity, we’re all a family. And you have to have a lot of patience. Audrey and I are noted for our patience. Everybody says what tremendous patience you have in teaching. You never tired of going over a figure. And I said, that’s true. But I said, you people that learn real fast, you have to have patience. Patience to go along with the people that take longer to learn, and the people that take longer have to have the patience to stick with it. So I said, everybody has to have patience. And it always worked. It always helped.
BB: Right. And, uh, you, you also mentioned the fact that the teacher, umm, beside yourself, also has to have patience.
EP: That’s right, yeah, that’s right.
BB: The teacher of the slow learner and the fast learner all have their own certain patience that they have to go through.
EP: That’s right.
BB: Very interesting point.
EP: Yeah. Everybody’s got to have patience.
BB: Yeah.
EP: And, uh, uh, . . .
AP: Another little philosophy, of course, that I, that I like to think of is if the dancer hasn’t learned, the teacher hasn’t taught.
BB: Uh, interesting, um, hmmm.
EP: So many times, and why we were always very successful, no matter if we were at a big convention or our home clubs, and there was a spot where the people were having trouble, we knew we had to change our terminology. We had to change the way we were saying it, and immediately, they would get it.
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: So that some people learned when you say it one way, another, and so you must never stick and keep saying the same thing over again. If the people aren’t getting it, you’ve got to change your approach, and then they’ll say, why didn’t you tell us this before.
BB: Um, hmmm, right.
EP: So that it’s important that you always are able to change the way you say things when you’re teaching a group.
BB: Well, why didn’t you say that in the first place.
AP: Right. Absolutely.
EP: That’s what they’ll say.
BB: That’s interesting. I wanted to ask you, too, a thought occurred to me as you were talking, did you use mixers, uh, in your round dancing?
EP: Uh, we used mixers in our beginners class. We didn’t use it in our clubs. Most people were opposed to being in mixers. They came with a partner, and they wanted to dance . . .
BB: Right.
EP: With that partner. When we had beginners clubs where they were learning, we would mix them up so that they would get… And it wasn’t until we had quite a group of black people come in and some people said we will not dance with them.
BB: Yeah.
EP: So, we figured, well, there’s no use forcing the issue, so we stopped, uh, mixing, except we had a very beginning, simple dance where they would change partners around the circle and one ending the night. And we did that, and the people that didn’t want to exchange stood out of the circle. And that was fine.
BB: Sure.
EP: They had their choice.
BB: Okay.
EP: But we had wonderful, wonderful black people that came into those beginners classes, and they were just great people.
BB: Well, that’s interesting. Uh, today we’re talking a little bit about costuming. Whether we’re over dressed or not, and in that you designed your own clothes and so forth, what’s your impression about, uh, (clock chimes) where do we stand today and what’s the future for costuming as far as square and round dancers are concerned.
AP: Well, you know, we – since we’ve been in it a long time and watched what’s happened throughout all the years, like we were saying earlier when you and I first started, why the girls were wearing dresses down to the floor . . .
BB: Right.
AP: And the long pantaloons.
BB: Right.
AP: And then, of course, it gradually shortened, and the petticoats got fuller as the dresses got shorter. And along with the mode of dressing changing, my ideas sort of changed as we went along. However, to a certain extent, I was tied in to what was the costume.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: And, uh, but there were some things that we really frowned upon and that was any girl coming to our dance in slacks. That just – we just frowned on that. In fact, we said, it was not correct dress and, and wasn’t approved of at all. We just didn’t allow it. But I had seen, as time goes on, and particularly at the Phase Five and Six where a smaller petticoat is perhaps more practical, particularly if you are doing many Rumbas, uh, . . .
EP: Or Latins.
AP: Or any of the Latins.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: Uh, it is more practical to have a slightly smaller petticoat. And perhaps not quite as full a skirt.
BB: Hmmm.
AP: But I still like to think of wearing something different when you’re going out to do your hobby.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: Something that you really enjoy. And the, the attitude that the dancers have expressed is, well, it’s an evening out, and we like to wear special clothes when we go dancing. And, of course, as I said a few minutes ago, I was kind of tied up into all of this because I had worn, uh, very fancy round dance clothes with a full petticoat, and, uh, matching shoes, and Eddie would, uh, wear clothes to go along with me, and I, I had to. As long as we were teaching, I really had to maintain that same dress code.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: Because if I had suddenly changed it, then I was between – betwixt and between. But now, looking at it now, I would be, I would say that I see no reason why people shouldn’t wear, uh, maybe not quite such an extreme dress form, but I still feel that it’s great to wear something special, and I like to see, I do like to see the leaders, particularly if you are going away to, uh, and you’re the one that’s putting on a weekend. I think the person that is putting on that weekend really owes it to everyone there to be dressed just as well as you can be dressed.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: To make sure that you stand out on the floor as the leader of that whole weekend.
BB: Right.
AP: And, uh, never dress down to any situation.
BB: Right.
AP: And when we held our, our clinics or our workshops other than the evening party dance, we still expected the dancers to dress, uh, in their round dance attire.
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: As far as the men, we, uh, felt that they should, shouldn’t wear jeans and that they should wear a shirt with long sleeves and particularly we liked them to wear a bolo tie or some kind of tie.
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: So that they were dressed up and not just come in short sleeved shirts and jeans . . .
AP: Or jersey top or something.
EP: Yeah.
BB: Right.
EP: Uh, I know that a lot of friends that I had didn’t square dance back in the early days because they said, you’re never going to get me into those clothes. Of course, whether they would ever square dance or not, I don’t know. But we always felt that it was a badge of what we were doing.
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: And we always liked to dress up and go. So, uh, uh, I think, as Audrey pointed out, in round dancing where they have gone to, uh, less petticoat and so on, when you do the Latins, the petticoats are in the way.
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: And so there’s a, there’s a reason for doing that.
BB: There’s a little bit of a trend for the prairie skirt.
AP: Yes, there is.
BB: That’s okay, you think?
AP: Well, I think that’s according to what people want to wear.
BB: Right.
AP: Um, I think sometimes when they wear the prairie skirt and, and it looks so droopy, I often think they look as if they’re in their nightgowns.
BB: Laughter.
AP: You know.
BB: Yeah.
AP: I think if, if it’s, if it’s made to, to look as if it is a dress . . .
BB: Right.
AP: And, and not just a dragged out . . .
BB: (. . . )
AP: Something coming in.
BB: Like a muumuu, or . . .
AP: Yes.
BB: Laughter.
AP: Well, then I, I still feel it should have a feeling of being dressed up.
BB: Right.
EP: We had a few ladies dance with us that would not wear a petticoat. They’d wear a nice dress and they’d look nice . . .
AP: Or a nice skirt..
EP: Or a nice skirt. But they would not wear a petticoat. But we never said, well you can’t dance if you don’t wear …
BB: Yeah.
AP: No, but that was a personal thing. I, I feel that dressing is a personal thing, but just so that it is within a certain frame work.
BB: Right.
AP: And if someone never likes to wear a petticoat or doesn’t feel comfortable in a, a round dance dress per se, that’s fine.
BB: Right.
AP: I can’t see that it makes that much difference.
BB: I had a dancer back in New York state that, uh, she wore the petticoat on the outside.
AP: Laughter
EP: Is that right.
BB: And nobody ever said a word.
EP: Laughter.
AP: Well.
EP: One funny thing I should tell you. When Audrey first came to California, she wore pantaloons, and Gordon Moss . . .
AP: Well, not, well, I guess they were almost down to my knees.
EP: Almost to your knees.
BB: Yeah.
AP: Right.
EP: And Gordon Moss was one of our dancers in our club, and the first night, he went up to Audrey and he said, when are you going to get rid of those awful pants. Laughter.
AP: Laughter. So I did.
BB: Right
AP: So I got into the real short dresses.
BB: Yeah. The most grotesque costume I think I ever saw . . .
EP: Laughter.
BB: Back in the days when pantaloons went to the ankle, and I saw a lady, who turned to be a square dance caller, wearing ankle-length pantaloons with knee-length skirt and western boots.
EP: Oh, no.
AP: Laughter.
EP: No. Laughter.
AP: My first experience of seeing these long dresses, and at the time of the Chicago Square Dance National, I think was just the time they were really dressing up in those long dresses and the pantaloons, and particular the people coming from California. I’ll never forget that.
BB: Yeah.
AP: And in the round dance activity, and because I went back and I could hardly wait to design a long dress.
BB: Um, hmmm.
AP: So, we all got into the longer dresses.
BB: Well, we’re getting down near the end of our discussion, uh, one question I want to ask and that is, do you have any regrets about your career at all? Anything you would have changed?
EP: I, I don’t have a single regret. I, I . . .
AP: I think that Eddie and I have . . .
EP: I don’t know that I would change anything.
AP: Eddie and I have been most fortunate. We have been fortunate in, uh, having such a wonderful life together, enjoying, uh, an activity, uh, together. So many people, they say, I don’t what I’m going to do when my husband retires and he’s home all day. Well, we have lived together, worked together, done everything together for years. And, uh, we’re very happy doing it.
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: Also, uh, people would say, well, we’re sure thankful, you’ve given so much to the round dance activity, the dance activity,and that I said, you know, we haven’t given near as much as we’ve gotten back in the wonderful friends we have all over the world. Even in Japan, and Australia, and New Zealand, and all these people that are wonderful friends. And we gained all this, and there’re hardly a week goes by, somebody doesn’t contact us.
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: And say they missed us. You know, that is really compensation.
BB: Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, that answers one of the other questions I’ve asked others and that is what did you find appealing about teaching round dances and so forth, and you just answered the question, I’m sure.
AP: Right.
BB: Well.
EP: We feel, and, and we say this. Square dancing, ballroom dancing which we did for years is cold. You don’t gain the friendships. You gain a few friends, but there isn’t the community feeling, the group feeling, that in square dancing and round dancing you feel you’re in a family. And you’re all part of this family. And when somebody’s sick, and everybody is concerned.
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: And I think it is a wonderful activity. In fact, you know, when you have people write to you and say, you know, you really saved our marriage . . .
BB: Um, hmmm.
EP: It makes you feel good because. . .
BB: Right.
EP: You’re doing something worthwhile, not just trying to make a name for yourself.
BB: That’s so true. Right. Well, I was, I’ve always been impressed all my life with all the people I’ve known, that for years and years I’ve known them, but I didn’t know their religion, I didn’t know their politics . . .
EP: Or their work.
BB: Or their work even.
EP: True. You don’t know anything about them.
BB: Yeah.
EP: And you don’t care.
BB: No.
AP: I think that’s – it’s a leveling agent I guess, isn’t it? And that is what’s so great about the activity.
BB: Yeah.
AP: You know, that you get to know people, enjoy them, and you enjoy them as people and it doesn’t really matter.
BB: Well, this certainly has been a lot of fun today, and I really appreciate your taking the time to, uh, get together and put this information down on tape, and I, uh, I’ll be – I’m heading off this afternoon for Los Angeles Airport where Callerlab is, uh, holding fort. And I’ll be talking to other leaders around the country, and I appreciate your taking the time. Thank you so much.
EP: Well, you know, we’re really honored that you came by to tape this, uh, interview with us, and we’re really thrilled that you did it. It’s another plus for our activity.
BB: Well, thank you very much. So, we’ll be seeing you again around the square as they say.
AP: That’s right.
EP: That’s right.
AP: And happy dancing.
BB: Thank you very much. The same to you. This concludes the tape with Eddie and Audrey Palmquist in Laguna Hills, California.